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TLC Forum We'll leave the lamppost on for you. 2021-01-23T09:21:33 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/app.php/feed/topic/108 2021-01-23T09:21:33 2021-01-23T09:21:33 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&p=87105#p87105 <![CDATA[Re: The LotGK's motive]]> Statistics: Posted by Ajnos — Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:21 am

]]> 2021-01-20T19:02:51 2021-01-20T19:02:51 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&p=87103#p87103 <![CDATA[Re: The LotGK's motive]]>

If God created more than one universe, though, I think He'd keep us from knowing so we wouldn't contaminate it like in The Magician's Nephew.

Getting here late for the discussion, such as your last comment haha

But what you said above actually reminds me of the Cosmic Trilogy, also by CS Lewis, where these other worlds actually exist in our universe, being in other planets such as Mars and Venus, yet undefiled by sin.
These books rely even more on the theme of humans contaminating other worlds with evil than in the Magician's Nephew.

Statistics: Posted by Corintur — Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:02 pm

]]> 2020-05-17T18:32:51 2020-05-17T18:32:51 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&p=86622#p86622 <![CDATA[Re: The LotGK's motive]]>

1) CSL wanted to show a Paganism where the gods were not devils and deceivers, were not rebels against God.
2) CSL wanted to show how Paganism prefigured Christianity (it is commonplace how OT Hebraism did, especially in Church Fathers)
3) CSL named the place Narnia because that is where Hannibal's troop were brought to a halt before Rome (and Narnia/Calormen very much reflects Rome/Carthage in The Everlasting Man by Chesterton - read it, it is on the web)
4) CSL put things in another world so that a Lion on a Stone Table would not be an intrusive and inappropriate image of Christ on Calvary.
5) CSL knew the idea of "other worlds" from Medieval scholastic theological discussions.

Could God create ONLY one world? No, answered Bishop Tempier in 1277. Limiting God's omnipotence is heretical.

Good points. Unfortunately there are still a few Christians I've met who won't read Narnia because it mentions Bacchus and mentions fauns and centaurs, not understanding that Lewis simply wanted to include these ancient myths in a way that was not connected with evil.

If God created more than one universe, though, I think He'd keep us from knowing so we wouldn't contaminate it like in The Magician's Nephew.

Getting back to the topic, though, I am inclined to think that the LotGK was more enthralled with the idea of ruling Narnia rather than marrying the prince. I imagine after ten years of hearing his anger toward her when he was tied to the silver chair and in his right mind that the LotGK would have a hard time actually loving him even if there was a real romance when she enchanted him.

Statistics: Posted by HermitoftheNorthernMarch — Sun May 17, 2020 6:32 pm

]]> 2015-07-28T16:06:12 2015-07-28T16:06:12 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&p=55386#p55386 <![CDATA[Re: The LotGK's motive]]>
... back. There's a similar one from India, "The Snake Prince" in the Olive Fairy Book, but it's not the same, and in its second half lacks some of the important similarities between the Czech version and The silver Chair (= the lucidness/lack thereof at night), so...? Probably really what I thought, similar motifs being combined in different tales throughout the world, and into yet another tale in Narnia.

(Completely off topic edit: Since most if not all of those tales come from collections done by other people throughout the world, I don't think I'd call Lang a collector as such - more like a compiler. That doesn’t make him any less thorough, but comparing him to the Brothers Grimm is comparing apples and oranges. He could only do what he did because of people like them writing down the oral traditions in the first place. If you want to continue in this kind of conversation, we should probably from now on move it elsewhere.)

Statistics: Posted by marmota-b — Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:06 pm

]]> 2015-07-28T15:27:17 2015-07-28T15:27:17 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&p=55383#p55383 <![CDATA[Re: The LotGK's motive]]>

I am now wondering if Lewis did know about the Czech fairy tale,

I think he did, since he had probably read it in Andrew Lang's collections (not sure which one of the books).

Andrew Lang was a most thorough fairy tale collector, unlike Grimm Brothers not limited to Germany, but very international.

Or Narnia itself came about from some deep mythical source, of course...

Statistics: Posted by hansgeorg — Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:27 pm

]]> 2015-07-25T21:26:16 2015-07-25T21:26:16 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&p=55234#p55234 <![CDATA[Re: The LotGK's motive]]> Or Narnia itself came about from some deep mythical source, of course...

Statistics: Posted by marmota-b — Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:26 pm

]]> 2015-07-25T20:07:53 2015-07-25T20:07:53 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&p=55223#p55223 <![CDATA[Re: The LotGK's motive]]> Statistics: Posted by HermitoftheNorthernMarch — Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:07 pm

]]> 2015-07-24T07:51:42 2015-07-24T07:51:42 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&p=55089#p55089 <![CDATA[Re: The LotGK's motive]]>

Statistics: Posted by marmota-b — Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:51 am

]]> 2015-07-24T07:44:51 2015-07-24T07:44:51 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&p=55086#p55086 <![CDATA[Re: The LotGK's motive]]> Statistics: Posted by Lily of Archenland — Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:44 am

]]> 2015-06-22T19:33:12 2015-06-22T19:33:12 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&p=52407#p52407 <![CDATA[Re: The LotGK's motive]]>
I think that the Witch set her sights on Narnia because she wanted to expand her kingdom and was presented with the opportunity. She'd already conquered Underland, and maybe she wanted more. I've heard theories that the LotGK was a descendant/related to Jadis, so maybe she chose Narnia for sentimental/strategic reasons.

Statistics: Posted by Shield Maiden — Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:33 pm

]]> 2015-06-22T18:05:54 2015-06-22T18:05:54 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&p=52403#p52403 <![CDATA[Re: The LotGK's motive]]>

Statistics: Posted by elanorelle — Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:05 pm

]]> 2015-06-22T20:38:25 2015-06-22T15:51:11 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&p=52379#p52379 <![CDATA[Re: The LotGK's motive]]> In very condensed form and as far as I remember it, a prince enchanted into a white snake marries a princess (in the snake form) and turns back into a human at night, to her immense relief. So when she finds his snake skin, she thinks it's a good way to make sure he stays human forever and burns it; it does work, but the side effect is that he forgets her and leaves her? He's definitely gone. She then eventually finds him "married" to a queen, who's really the witch who enchanted him to begin with (because he did not want to marry her). So she tricks the witch into allowing her to stay with him three consecutive nights; but the witch gives him a sleeping potion. But he begins to be suspicious, so the third night he doesn't drink it, and finds his wife there and they live happily ever after.

So. Obviously it's by no means the same story, but I've realised it features some similar motifs (snake-shaping people, a witch who tricks a prince into marrying her, and the enchanted prince losing his memories...), and it might be interesting to see if Lewis may have known similar tales, and taken those motifs and turned them upside down and see what that says about his motives in writing the book the way he did.

Statistics: Posted by marmota-b — Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:51 pm

]]> 2014-01-25T18:41:56 2014-01-25T18:41:56 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&p=12078#p12078 <![CDATA[Re: The LotGK's motive]]>
But even with Jadis, I kind of wonder whether she totally embraced the villain-role, or just saw stuff through a warped glass. I mean, in her own world lower-ranking persons don't carry value in her eyes, but she stands on the letter of legality with all of her might when it comes to nobility. She will not use her WMD unless her throne is being contested by a potential usurper who has broken her word as to the rules of the great game. Her ancestor was right to kill his nobles because they were plotting treason. She would not contest Uncle Andrew's local authority were he a ruler with the right blood. She expects and basks in the praise which she thinks is her due. There's a certain logic to it--she really thinks she's all that and a bag of chips, and that everybody else should, you know? Her pride in herself and her magic and her family name seems to have her blinded. And then she gets thrown into a new world where the rules are different and the laws are different and nobody knows her, and there's a power which isn't vulnerable to her and which could squash her like a bug. And she learns how to use new magic, and she tries to carve a position for herself--Emperor's hangman, rumored part-Human--where she can get a measure of the respect, or at least the fear, she's used to and considers her right. At least, that's how I see her.

With LOTGK, I don't know of her background, or what brought her mindset to where she was willing to hide in the deep places and mass an army and use subterfuge for however long in order to be able to target Narnia, in particular. Why did she have a grudge against Narnia? Or what were its resources and attractions for her? Of course she must have known that her plans were cruel, unless Enchanted!Rilian voiced her own mindset and she saw herself as grand and beautiful and pure and thought that bursting up out of the earth with the prince at her side was a big joke and that surely everyone would get over it once they saw how awesome she was, which I rather doubt. :p But I still don't know what was in her past to make it so attractive to her.

Statistics: Posted by Lily of Archenland — Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:41 pm

]]> 2014-01-25T05:32:24 2014-01-25T05:32:24 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&p=12037#p12037 <![CDATA[Re: The LotGK's motive]]> Statistics: Posted by Ariel.of.Narnia — Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:32 am

]]> 2014-01-25T04:59:25 2014-01-25T04:59:25 https://www.thelionscall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&p=12033#p12033 <![CDATA[Re: The LotGK's motive]]> How many villains do you think saw themselves as the villain of the story?

Statistics: Posted by Lily of Archenland — Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:59 am

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