Who is the Satan figure? Jadis or Tash? Well, I would say it's complicated. Tash is not in equal to Aslan, just as Satan is not in equal to Jesus.
Statistics: Posted by jasmine_tarkheena — Fri Apr 14, 2023 2:28 pm
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I like the possibility that Stars can come in different shapes sometimes. After all, Angels do.
They do, that's true! It can be debated that who is the most likely Satan figure, Jadis or Tash. Though I would say that Tash could be a picture of how Satan will one day reveal his true nature. You know that passage in Revelation, "Woe to the Earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you! He is filled with great anger, knowing he doesn't have much time!"
There are some who often view Shift as the Antichrist, but I think Rishda could also be the Antichrist in some aspect. Rishda is a Calormene, and not a Narnian, and he persecutes Narnians, especially the followers of Aslan. So it would have been kind of awkward if Shift, a talking ape from Narnia, was the only one persecuting Narnians. And how else would Shift manipulate Narnians when says that Aslan and Tash are one and the same without the Calormenes involved?
Statistics: Posted by jasmine_tarkheena — Fri Apr 14, 2023 1:55 am
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If the fallen star theory were true... I have kind of an unnerving and yet maybe beautifully tragic idea about that other pair of arms.
I think they didn't grow when he fell... they shriveled, and lost their feathers.
They were originally his *wings*.
Bird-person Star, and all.
...the rotten smell, though - *that's* a result of his falling.
I think they didn't grow when he fell... they shriveled, and lost their feathers.
They were originally his *wings*.
Bird-person Star, and all.
...the rotten smell, though - *that's* a result of his falling.
I didn't think about that. I would think that he was once very beautiful and was transformed into a monstrous creature as a result of his falling; the foul smell may have been something of his corruption as well.
Statistics: Posted by jasmine_tarkheena — Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:31 pm
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If the fallen star theory were true... I have kind of an unnerving and yet maybe beautifully tragic idea about that other pair of arms.
I think they didn't grow when he fell... they shriveled, and lost their feathers.
They were originally his *wings*.
Bird-person Star, and all.
...the rotten smell, though - *that's* a result of his falling.
Statistics: Posted by Lily of Archenland — Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:03 am
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I have two favorite theories about Tash. One is the Fallen Star angle, which makes sense to me thematically. But something that makes more sense to me with his aesthetic and his ties to Calormen, is that he was a localized god/nature spirit - a spirit of the desert like the river-gods in Narnia are spirits of the waters - who got too big for his britches and started wanting the glory of being worshipped and served by humans in his territory.
I think I'd go with the Fallen Star theory about Tash. He may have thought he'd be like the Great Emperor Over The Sea or Aslan. He may have been very beautiful. Possibly, if he fell from the sky, he was most likely stripped of his position and beauty, transforming him into the monstrous creature. However, he may not have been stripped of his power.
When Calormen was established, he may have started demanding worship, and temples of Tash were built. Maybe the question is, was Tash his actual name or did he have another name prior? Did he always have the four arms or did two new ones started growing when he fell?
Statistics: Posted by jasmine_tarkheena — Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:47 pm
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You might recall that Satan used to be an angel named Lucifer. At times in the Bible, "stars" are referred to as "angels". He was very beautiful yet at one point, he thought he could be like God and rebelled. God had to kicked him out of Heaven, and he became known as Satan.
Statistics: Posted by jasmine_tarkheena — Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:40 pm
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When you read about where Tash makes an appearance in The Last Battle, it's like, "What? He was real?" I think it was all worth the wait. And he only has one line the whole series- "Thou hast called me into Narnia Rishda Tarkaan. Here I am. What has thou to say." It's as Rishda was playing with fire, using the name of Tash randomly, though doesn't believe in Tash. From a religious aspect, Jesus had dealt with religious leaders who claim to do things for God. He even pointed out that they actually belong to Satan. So the idea of Rishda doing things in the name of Aslan but actually realizing he belong to Tash is the same idea as the religious leaders saying they're doing things for God yet they actually belong to Satan.
Statistics: Posted by jasmine_tarkheena — Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:01 pm
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*ahem* Speculation about the Lilith/Jadis connection aside -
Does Jadis NEED to be Satan, as such? Tash as something demonic, or at least playing a demon-like role in the world regardless of if he's exactly a fallen Angel, makes sense. But Why can't a world have more than one evil? Jadis is a corrupt ruler - one who will do anything to maintain her power, and who is allowed to have her way for awhile while the people are asking "how long?" before God comes in to save. If you want Biblical parallels, there are plenty for that Type of a person - Pharaoh, Babylon, even the Assyrians for a time - can an evil ruler oppressing the people of God just be an evil ruler oppressing the people of God?
Different thread, perhap, but Elves - weren't so much a perfect species, as a species which stood or fell on a case by case basis rather than by a single act of rebellion. When they were good they were very good, and when they were bad they were horrid.
Statistics: Posted by Lily of Archenland — Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:06 am
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Narnia is a land where men bring their fallenness from England. But Narnian creatures as such are not fallen.
In Perelandra, he shows a scenario where a fall is averted.
And JRRT of course had elves represent how humanity might have looked if it weren't fallen.
Statistics: Posted by hansgeorg — Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:18 pm
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Snorre says Odin was a man, Frey was a man, their descendants were Ynglings in Uppsala. Since Odin is said to have immigrated from "Tyrkjaland" ("Turkey", but not sure what were its limits back when Snorre wrote), CSL might in Calormen partly be poking fun at Odinism.
However, this man is not identical to the demon who shows up in LB, indeed not even to the idol worshipped in Tashbaan. If I were to sacrifice people on the altar of my grandpa (who would not have wanted such a thing, it would have horrified him completely), hope I will never sink so deep of course, the picture of that altar would not be my grandpa, even if it were a photo : it would be a picture inhabited by some demon, since such are recipients of idol worship. So, Tash as worshipped in Tashbaan was already a demon, presumably the same as showed up in the LB.
This brings us to the question on whether the demon came to the Narnian world before the human historic Tash did. I think Tash the demon was worshipped by Jadis already in Charn, and came to Narnia with Jadis.
Note, Jadis is not human. When Mr and Mrs Beaver say she is "part giant, part Jinn, descended from Lilith" this may be a false opinion of how demonic giants came to be, but it does identify her as a demonic giant. The part on Lilith being "Adam's first wife" is wrong, but Frank or Helen, though presumably Anglican Christians, might one or other or both of them have a Jewish connexion.
What Jadis fails to do in MN is what the serpent succeeded in doing in Eden. However, though Christian Orthodoxy says the serpent is Satan, Jews would tend to view the serpent as Lilith.
So, let us consider Jadis as a failed Lilith and Tash as a rather more successful Abaddon of the Narnian world. When I say a "failed" Lilith, Jadis did succeed later, for a hundred years.
I think the human Tash was initiated by her in Tash worship and into impersonating "his god" for Calormenes. And possessed by Tash as she was already.
It seems demonic pseudohumans and even demons sometimes also revel in idolatry as in worshipping demons. I am not sure if the Nine Muses were demons or witches, but Hesiod records that while he overheard their singing, they sang hymns to all the gods ranging from Zeus to ... Kronos with the Crooked Mind - does that sound like demon worship? I think it does. So, Jadis was a demonic being worshipping a demon - though of course also, at the same time, in LWW she honours (pays lip service) to Emperor over the Sea as His hangman - a role which is that of Satan.
Narnia is in a world were some things, like evils, are smaller and less ultimate than in our world.
Statistics: Posted by hansgeorg — Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:56 am
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