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Uncle Andrew is like the dumb beasts only because he chose not to understand them, not because he never had the ability to understand, almost like the talking animal who has forgotten how to speak.
That's a really good comparison! Aslan charges the Talking Beasts not to revert to their former ways (which would be a conscious series of decisions), and we see that with Ginger in LB, whose arc is not a whole lot different from Andrew's.Statistics: Posted by Ariel.of.Narnia — Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:09 am
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Chapters 9 and 10
It seems that Strawberry and the Cabby would agree with Digory’s assessment of London form the beginning of the book. I’ve never been to London, and I do hope it is not a “beastly hole” these days, but apparently it was not a restful place back in the days when Sherlock Holmes was still living in Baker Street. I don’t think I’ve ever read anything where London was portrayed as restful, but since I like to read action/adventure, that is not very surprising.
I was happy to read the Cabbie’s words about how he was once in a choir. As I said before, it’s been a few years since I last read this, and earlier I was speculating on his tendency to enjoy music and take comfort in it.
As for Uncle Andrew, he, like the dumb beasts, could no longer understand the talking animals. Aslan told the animals to treat the dumb beasts gently, yet Uncle Andrew is like the dumb beasts only because he chose not to understand them, not because he never had the ability to understand, almost like the talking animal who has forgotten how to speak. He does not even have the excuse of saying he thought he must be going mad when he chose to listen for a lion roaring instead of Aslan’s song—he was surrounded by others who heard the song and were talking about it. Uncle Andrew simply wanted to reject the truth that was all around him. He wanted it to be not so until he firmly believed he was right. I just find it rather tragic, though he brought it on himself.
Chapters 11 and 12
I love the idea in these two chapters that Aslan sees people for who they really are and gives them the chance to become that. In these chapters, we see it most with King Frank and Queen Helen and Fledge. Not only did Aslan pick Fledge to be one of the talking horses of Narnia even though he came from a world other than Narnia, he gave him the chance to be a winged horse.
“Be winged. Be the father of all flying horses,” roared Aslan in a voice that shook the ground. “Your name is Fledge.”
And when given the chance, Fledge accepts immediately with no hesitation. I sort of wonder if, in his old life, he ever watched the birds and wished he could fly like them.
With King Frank and Queen Helen, it was slightly different. When Aslan asked him, as the Cabbie, if he wanted to stay, the only reason he did not say yes was because he had a commitment to someone else that held him to London.
“If my wife was here neither of us would ever want to go back to London, I reckon. We’re both country folks, really.”
P. 149, The Cabbie, “Digory and His Uncle Are Both in Trouble”
And then Aslan brought her to Narnia where they could both be happy and could know and serve Aslan better. It is simply beautiful how Aslan gave them the chance to become more than they were before. Even Digory, although being sent to find the fruit may not be a reward in itself, was given the chance to help make right the results of his actions.
Two more things. When Digory and Polly and Fledge are trying to fall asleep, it was interesting to read
And they repeated to one another all the signs by which they would know the places they were looking for—the blue lake and the hill with the garden on top of it.
P. 165-166, “Strawberry’s Adventure”
In The Silver Chair, Jill is considered solely responsible for remembering the signs. Even though Jill and Digory were alone in being given instructions for their quests, in The Silver Chair, Eustace and Puddleglum did not try to learn and remember the signs to help Jill, but in The Magician’s Nephew, both Polly and Fledge learn them as well and do their (unrequired) part to keep them fresh in mind. Also, when I was writing out that last quote from the book, it reminded me of this quote from The Two Towers
Treebeard repeated the words thoughtfully. “Hill. Yes, that was it. But it is a hasty word for a thing that has stood here ever since this part of the world was shaped. Never mind. Let us leave it, and go.”
P. 455, “Treebeard,” The Two Towers
In Middle Earth, there is a vast sense of history, down to the very trees and hills. Bit The Magician’s Nephew talks about the beginning of a world before anything is old. It has a unique beauty that way.
Chapters 13, 14, and 15
I’m not sure there’s much I can say on this. The way the book ends is, quite simply, the ending we all want it to have and the ending that we all want life to have. I know my sister, Hermit of the Northern March, has shared before that our father died of cancer when we were little. A long time ago, when I first wrote my introduction page on the old forum, I mentioned that my introduction to The Chronicles of Narnia came when my sister told me one morning, “Mom read a good book last night,” and that the book turned out to be The Magician’s Nephew. What I did not say before was that our mom started reading Narnia to us only a few months after our dad died. I know C.S. Lewis was writing this about his own experience of his mother dying when he was young, but it always seemed personal to me as well. At one point in an earlier chapter, Aslan tells Digory,
My son, my son…I know. Grief is great. Only you and I in this land know that yet. Let us be good to one another.
p.. 154, “Strawberry’s Adventure.”
There was another family at my church who lost their father to a heart attack around the same time, but they moved away eventually. While they were there, though, there was a certain completely unspoken connection I always had with them—not because I spent a lot of time with them, but because they knew what it was like, and they were the only people my age, that I knew, who did. So when the witch tells Digory
…She will be quite well again. All will be well again. Your home will be happy again. You will be like other boys.
P. 176, Jadis, “An Unexpected Meeting”
it is an unbelievably strong temptation. Still, there is much comfort in Aslan’s earlier words and in Digory’s realization.
…at the same time he knew that the Lion knew what would have happened, and that there might be things more terrible even than losing someone you love by death.
P. 191, “The Planting of the Tree”
Even though we are not told specifically in our real lives what this would entail, it is nonetheless true. I would rather live a normal lifetime and die and go to heaven than live forever in a fallen world.
Another (Much more cheerful) thought that stood out was the toffee tree. It was planted in the Western Wilds, and a part of me wonders if in the future that we never get to read about the toffee tree multiplies throughout that entire area.
Statistics: Posted by Luthien — Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:50 pm
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What lovely moles, Hobbit!
I particularly like the lego Jadis on the cab
And the poem/ballad is spectacular, Cleander! I like how it looks back on the events as a history and ties it into the future of Narnia.
Statistics: Posted by Swanwhite — Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:19 pm
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Cleander, that poem was so cool!
Great artwork as always, Hobbit.
Statistics: Posted by Ariel.of.Narnia — Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:17 am
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@Cleander: I love your ballad...you should put it to a tune!
Beginning with chapter 7, I'd been trying to keep my drawings smaller so I'd have them all finished in time, but with the last one I decided to go back to full-page because I wanted to end big.
Statistics: Posted by hobbit_of_narnia — Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:09 am
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Well, I said I may or may not come up with a closing poem, and I decided to give it a whack. Here goes:
The Song of the First King, or, The Ballad of Frank
A Narnian Bard's Song
In darkness, when the world was born,
A Son of Adam saw the light.
From Lantern Waste he saw the morn,
If I recall the tales aright.
A man named Frank, of humble birth,
A driver of a wooden cart,
Was brought here from a place called Earth,
And with him, brought a noble heart.
When Aslan's song had waked the trees,
And roused the mighty river-gods,
He looked for one to rule all these,
To name the beasts and till the sod.
"My son," said he, "I've known you long.
Do you feel that you know me?"
And Frank, now filled with Aslan's song,
Replied, "I feel that it must be."
"Would it please your heart to dwell,
Within this land, for all your life?"
"Sir," said Frank, " I'd like it well,
If only I could bring my wife."
The Lion gave The Lion's Call*,
And quick as thought, the woman came,
With gladdened heart she saw it all,
For she and Frank were much the same.
"My children, you'll be King and Queen,
And yours shall be the royal line.
You'll rule o'er all that can be seen,
As guardians of this land of mine."
And with these words, the Lion told
The dwarfs to light their smithing-fire,
From trees of silver and of gold,
They wrought two crowns of shining wire.
And so the King and Queen were crowned,
And from their house great heroes rose,
Whose songs in hist'ry have gone down,
As everyone in Narnia knows.
They settled by the Eastern Sea,
And built the grand Cair Paravel,
They kept the Narnian kingdom free,
And ruled it wisely, just and well.
But one day in their mighty hall,
Upon their day of Jubilee,
An ancient centaur came to call,
And brought with him a prophecy.
"My Lord, you must erect four thrones,"
Said he, with wisdom in his eyes.
"For it is written, as in stones,
An awful bodement in the skies."
"An evil time will one day fall,
Upon this happy land of ours,
And to this end, you have been called,
To help restrain the evil powers."
"To me it has been clearly shone:
When Adam's flesh and Adam's bone,
Sits on Cair Paravel in throne,
The evil time shall be over and done."
Then Frank the King of Narnia gave,
An order that the thrones be made.
By this his country would be saved,
Long after he to rest was laid.
* Well, that totally wasn't on purpose!
I'm guessing this was a song commonly sung by minstrels in Narnia. There are no mentions of Digory, Polly, Uncle Andrew, etc., because... otherwise it would get super long.
OK, well I guess you could say that the events of the creation became clouded in legend, with different parts being told separately in different versions of the story. You know how minstrels are... you know what? Neither do I.
See ya 'round, Narnians! This is Cleander signing out on this thread! (but not the forum, of course.
)Statistics: Posted by cleander — Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:06 pm
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I really like the way Perch chose to use so many different building mediums (media?).
Statistics: Posted by kristi — Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:02 pm
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This is his build of Jadis riding atop the cab and driving Strawberry with the whip.
Here he has Aslan standing in front of some mountains. Aslan uses a human Lego's face built into a larger lion housing, which is kinda cool.
Here is his take on the scene at the garden, with Fledge in the foreground, Jadis in the middle, and Digory at left. The phoenix is represented by the centipede.
Statistics: Posted by kristi — Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:55 pm
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Statistics: Posted by Ariel.of.Narnia — Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:45 pm
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@Ajie, about Jadis's tempting DIgory: I'm quite sure that she rather knew his errand...somewhat. She knew he was there for Aslan; she wanted to see Him suffer, I think.
@Ariel: (Awwwwww....
I'd love to make a graphic novel of Narnia; I dunno if it'll ever happen, what with copyright and all that, but wow. Can you imagine how fun that would be...)@Swanwhite, about your copy of the book: ....that is amazing.
I have two thoughts from the last few chapters:
First, Jadis says "Then she will fall asleep—think of that; hours of sweet natural sleep, without pain, without drugs." How did she know about drugs? Did they have them in Charn? Even if so, how did she know they have them in our world? I'd think she would assume that our world was too primitive for advancements like that.
Second, just a little thing I noticed for the first time: bananas apparently grew here in the west of Narnia (they're among the things the animals gave "Brandy" to eat). I guess Shift was born in the wrong era.
I do have all three of my last drawings finished. I have not, however, had a chance to scan them yet. They should be up within 24 hours, though.
Statistics: Posted by hobbit_of_narnia — Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:28 pm
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“You need no rings when I am with you.”
Is perhaps my favourite line in the book. The moment is a demonstration of Aslan’s sovereignty, and his power beyond the magic contrivances of any world. The sufficiency of Aslan providing for them is beautiful.
I also like that my namesake, the housemaid is still having a splendid day
I fancy if I managed to transport myself into the story to observe events as she does (knowing full well everything turns out alright) I would also have a splendid day. Perhaps I will pretend that I did that and she is me It is such an excessively happy ending. Mabel Kirke getting well again, and all the heap of blessings on top of that give me great delight.
I partly listened to it by Audio book, and partly read from my copy that my favourite band sent me. The Gray Havens had a thing in their kickstarter rewards one time where they would send you a C. S. Lewis book of your choice. I happened to have lost my copy of Magician's Nephew and so chose that
It's my only chronicle that I have with coloured illustrations.
Statistics: Posted by Swanwhite — Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:39 am
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)@Ajjie and Hobbit: I did wonder if the phoenix could maybe be Narnia’s Holy Spirit for the exact same reason. I know I’ve been thinking of Aslan’s breath possibly being the Spirit (an idea put forth by someone else, I wanna day Wilf?), but the Spirit doesn’t have to take a single form either.
@Ajjie: I absolutely acknowledge that Digory’s journey was quicker and easier than Jill’s by a long shot. I only bring up the difference because Lewis never explicitly says that Jill shared the signs with her companions (even though, as I said, they seem to have at least a working knowledge).
Nice comparison of Frank and Emeth.
Jadis’ (probable) marriage tactics make sense to me, the way you phrase ‘em.
I think offering Digory the throne is simply an offer of position and power, which is appealing to many. And if the implication is that he could have power like hers, then he’d be “god-like” in a sense, kinda like how Satan said Adam and Eve would be like God if they ate the fruit. I rather doubt Jadis knew what Aslan was going to do with the apple, but I’m confident that she knew that it would mean bad news for her, as she’s aware of a different and stronger magic than hers. And now that the rest of the apples are abhorrent to her, she likely wanted to 1) keep the apple from Aslan (again, bad news for her if he gets it), and 2) suck someone else into the curse she’s just entered. Satan was cast out of Heaven and he’s not too keen on any of us getting in either.
Good point about writing a world without the effects of the Fall and about man being above animals. (And yeah, Perelandra was kinda weird like that ‘cause that’s not what we know.)
@cleander: I hadn’t really realized the emotional impact of Digory’s temptation (even though Lewis makes the emotional aspect pretty clear through Digory’s reactions).
Nice parsing down of Digory’s reward!
Eh, yeah... it’s a problematic word. I think I’m more okay with it than I should be just because it took me a while to even realize what it actually was and it looks so different anyway.... Wouldn’t repeat it around kids though.
That is an interesting thought. I also wonder if that has any sort of ramifications on “Adam’s flesh and Adam’s bone”. Though... I guess not. Even apart from the kings between Frank’s children and Jadis (ie: human half-breeds), there’s also Rilian who’s at least a quarter Star, if not half. But then... Jadis is supposedly connected to Adam through Lilith (which is a whole other issue, but anyway (I say! That means Charn, or at least that like of kings we see, came about after our world began. And that someone(s) from our world stumbled into that at some point.)), so maybe that’s why she makes use of that to claim the throne of Narnia? (Mr Beaver pooh-poohs this as an illegitimate claim, so perhaps it’s not so much a claim to Adam that counts as it is one of a claim to both Adam and Eve?) Aaaaaanyway. I’m done playing with that can of worms for the time being.
Last chapter!
“... such a sweetness and power rolled about them and over them and entered them that they felt they had never really been happy or wise or good, or even alive and awake, before.” Between this feeling and the silver apple, it sounds an awful lot like the True Narnia... which makes sense, of course, what with Aslan’s living presence and the Edenic nature of the garden.
Who were the first citizens of Archenland, I wonder? By HHB, it seems to be populated by a human citizenry, not one of creatures. Did more humans come from our world, as the Telmarines did? Did Narnians follow the first king over the border (or already live there), and then phase out over time for a human population? Was Archenland a sort of “South Narnia” for a time? What drove Frank’s second son from home to set up a new nation? (I’d be tempted to say something about Adam’s son Cain, but I’m seriously hoping that Frank and Helen’s kids weren’t at all like that.) So many questions and no answers!
How much do you suppose Uncle Andrew actually remembers of his adventure in another world? He clearly remembers Jadis as a “dem fine woman” for a long time (I imagine he romanticizes the memory and downplays/ignores the nastiest bits) and he certainly learned his lesson about dabbling in magic, but does he remember the Wood or Narnia or Aslan or Narnia’s creation (and the lamppost-tree) or the whole ordeal of having been planted and caged by animals?
And, coming around full circle, Digory grows up to be what Uncle Andrew could have been: a wise and respected scholar and world traveller who satiated his curiosities with wholesome pursuits and who never forgot Aslan and His grace and purity.
Statistics: Posted by Ariel.of.Narnia — Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:51 am
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Some random closing thoughts:
- I thought it interesting that Jadis relies on emotional attacks while tempting Digory. It reminded me that logic isn't exactly Satan's strongpoint; his arguments never hold up under any honest scrutiny, whereas he can manipulate a person's emotions to justify anything without question. It's also funny to hear Jadis call Digory a "pitiless boy" after she slaughters an entire universe in cold blood.
- The reward Digory receives comes only after he seems to have given up all hope on it. He does Aslan's bidding, looking for no reward, and gets his mother's cure in the end. Forsake your life and you will find it, I guess.
- I remember not knowing at first what to make of Andrew's use of "dem." (CONTENT WARNING: not really though
) I guess that word sounded like outright swearing to me, and in a Christian-themed kid's book that seemed just a little out of place. In the audiobook version Kenneth Branagh also makes it sound a bit like the actual....word, which also bugged me a bit. Much, much later I realized that in England "dem" is an equivalent to "darn," so I suppose it's OK... though if I ever read this book out loud to my nephews, I'll probably just change it to "darn" just to be safe. 
(Then again, the non-euphemistic term could really apply to Jadis, so perhaps that's what Lewis was thinking, similar to his use of it to describe certain heretical fallacies refuted in Mere Christianity. )
@ Ajnos: At least we can take comfort in the fact that Frank does indeed come to know Aslan better, and dies a spiritual bulwark of his country. Regardless of his somewhat mixed-up theology earlier in life.
Also, I LOVE the idea of Jadis being a bull dancer! She seems like the kind of person for it. If the Netflix series gets super-expansive, they need to put that in there!
-I wonder if the nymph and river-god blood had any effect on the appearance of early Narnia royalty... perhaps they looked slightly leafy and branchy in a certain light, or had really peely skin that came off like bark...
- I would love a few epilogue scenes in the Netflix production featuring the planting of the second tree and the building of the wardrobe. Maybe a post-credits scene?...
Well, that's about it for now. I may or may not come up with a poem later on, but until then, it's been good reading and discussing with everyone! Further up and further in! FOR NARNIA AND FOR ASLAN!
Statistics: Posted by cleander — Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:06 pm
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Gonna make a bunch of random comments, mostly replies to previous comments. More journal will come in time (keep bugging me if it doesn't).
Ariel: Yes, the nose exchange with the elephant and bulldog is great. Wow, that line "in despair he looked up at his face" is powerful; hadn't thought about it. The thing about them remembering the signs is really interesting. But to be fair to Jill and co., these guys had less than a day of travel to remember them and they were far less cryptic and the adventure (if it could even be called an adventure) less distracting.
On the cabby/cabby spelling, it seems to be a general variation rather than British vs American from what I can tell. I think most countries say "taxi drivers" now.
Cleander: (and others). I think, regarding the cabby's faith, he believes in God and is a church-goer. But his belief seems to mimic those of many nominal Christians who haven't understood the importance of grace over works. I think Kristi's right that many would have been regular church-goers in that day anyway, but his faith seems a bit more real than that. (I met people in England with the kind of faith he has - though I dare say we find them everywhere - and can picture the kind of ideas he had). Aslan says to him: "You know me better than you think you know, and you shall live to know me better yet." He's a little bit like Emeth - looking for God and wanting to serve him, but has not yet understood the truth completely.
Kristi: Did you mean you thought there were other "what-ifs" driving one mad in Narnia or elsewhere? For some reason, this put me in mind of the scene in VDT where Lucy does give in to temptation (reading the spell to find out what her friends think of her) and then she regrets that she did it. That's more like what Digory does - she would have been better resisting her curiosity.
On the truth of the back-story of Charn, I think we can pretty much take it for granted that Jadis is lying in parts. She lies about everything (including being a "daughter of Adam" in LWW). It seems from the hall of statues' faces that the culture had deteriorated over time and was already quite bad by Jadis' day (though I still want to know how long-lived they were because she talks as though she'd already been around a really long time before the deplorable word). I have a bit of an idea of my own headncannon for the back story that I'm supposed to work in to my Susan Fic (spoiler alert: it makes the Atlantis connection more overt). I was a bit worried in reading this that some of it might be inconsistent with what we are told. I can probably brush what Jadis says off as lies but can't ignore what Aslan says of Charn in the last chapter.
On why Polly and Digory don't get married: I was thinking when reading the hall of statues scene, when Digory is so mean to Polly and behaves so Andrew-ish, "this is probably why they never marry." But then I read the bit where she tells Aslan she has forgiven him which spoils the argument. Except that maybe she has forgiven him on the whole, and shows that by wanting to accompany him on the errand and by their relationship at the end. But maybe she can never quite respect him enough to see him as husband material because of that incident. Although part of me always wants to ship characters like them, I kinda like that we get some stories where they are just good friends. Sometimes that's how life works. (Like Jo and Laurie in Little Women; I've cried so many times over them but always decide in the end that it is right).
On the question of whether Jadis had any real intention of marrying the great magician who woke her: I think she probably never seriously intended it, but if he did turn out to be more powerful than her, she might have tried to play her cards right to work an "alliance". Anyone of lesser power than her she probably intended to make a subject, possibly pretending interest at the beginning to see how much she could use him. Another random question on her offering to share the throne with Digory: What was her intention in such a promise and tempting him? What benefit did she think he could bring to her? Did she know the purpose of his errand and was she trying to thwart that? (I suspect she did not know - unless eating the fruit somehow gave her that knowledge; it may have had a bit of a knowledge-of-good-and-evil effect to it). Or was her goal just to see another being fall? Was it pure retribution/hatred of Digory?
Ariel: I don't have much more to say on the question of the "curse of Adam" than what others have said, but I think point of the thistles were as donkey food (which made them a good thing). The fact they were probably also thorny, is something we can't avoid like bees stinging (and dying) and other things we associate with the fall. The problem is that it's rather difficult to write a world where there are no "effects of the fall" because it would be so unrecognisable to us (Lewis gets close in Perelandra and, it is strange). I think we can kind of accept that the sons of Adam bring the curse with them. It might seem unfair to the Narnians but our animals suffer for our fall and I think Lewis had a clear philosophy of mankind being on a different standing than animals, that man's relationship with God is different from that of animals, but that they have to live in the situations we inhabit. (Okay....getting tired and trailing off a bit there - hope it kinda makes sense).
Ariel: I also wondered about whether the toffee tree and gold and silver trees had any offspring. Hobbit is right the pollination might be a problem, but if the toffees have already grown fruit which have seeds, I *think* we get to bypass pollination (though I also don't know exactly how that works) - also this is the land where a lamppost can grow from a piece of one. Regardless, by the time of LWW, I think all three had gone because the apple tree itself is destroyed. The toffee one maybe stands a better chance being so far from Narnia proper - there might be a toffee forest after all.
I've always thought the Phoenix was Aslan himself but was less sure reading it this time. I think he is there as a warning but only to those who heed it. Jadis either didn't see him or willfully ignored him. I remember we had a discussion here once about whether there were any representations of the Holy Spirit in Narnia (since Aslan is the Son and the Emperor-Beyond-the-See the Father). It seems the phoenix would be a good candidate for representing the Spirit. That goes with what Hobbit said about it being a conscience. And with the fire-links, that lines up quite neatly.
Finally, going back to something Luthien said about the passage where Jadis rides the cab and linking it to the quote: "She thought the Witch must be someone out od a circus and she did not approve of bare arms."
We already know the royal house of Charn took pride in its magic, but what else did they do in their spare time? Perhaps Aunt Lettie was closer to the truth than she knew.
This made me smile because I always associate Charn with Atlantis and my image of Atlantis was formed early on from my reading Stephen Lawhead's Taliesin*. His Atlantean culture is inspired very much by that of Minoan Crete where we know they practiced some kind of acrobatic bull-dancing (and a main character in Taliesin is a princess who is also a bull-dancer). So now I have a head-cannon in which Jadis was a bull-dancer in her youth.
(*Disclaimer: I would rate Taliesin at the least as PG-13. Not recommended to younger readers or endorsed by TLC)
Statistics: Posted by Ajnos — Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:01 pm
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