The Problem of Aravis

To Narnia and the North!

Moderators: Ariel.of.Narnia, jesusgirl4ever, Ajnos

Lily of Archenland
ROotL
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:45 am

The Problem of Aravis

Post by Lily of Archenland » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:28 am

There is a particular scene which has come to bother me more over time, in part because I've heard other readers discussing implications which I honestly would not have thought of as a child. That is Aravis's scars received from Aslan, and his explanation of why.

I do understand that it was, at least roughly speaking, Aravis' fault that the slave-girl was beaten. And it is possible that it was her lack of remorse which Aslan was working to remedy--making sure that a future queen (I'm sure Aslan has foreknowledge in this universe as well as ours) would not be callous to suffering among her subjects, or willing to dismiss pain because they were the wrong person's lackey at some point. But, then we come to why she did what she did.

She didn't see any other way. Before she came up with this plan, she was ready to commit suicide.

When I was younger, I didn't really get this. I'd naively assumed that "arranged marriage" meant being stuck in the same house as a man she disliked for the rest of her life, and at some point raising his heir, without thinking through the details. And that "let's not look too closely" attitude persisted until recently, even when I was definitely old enough that I should have known better. Trying to be delicate, because this is a kid-friendly forum, but I hadn't thought through the fact that Aravis would legally be able to be hurt by him on a daily basis if he wanted, and that he didn't seem to be the sort who was particularly willing to care about his wife's desires. And she was willing to die to get away from that, and then she found a way which would let her escape forever without dying, and with the consequence being that one person got hurt, one time, not by her personally, and possibly unavoidably. And then "God" claws her for it.

Does this seem at all disproportionate to anyone else? Do you think that a verbal rebuke, perhaps accompanied by a vision, would have been as effective as days of pain to teach a girl who had just escaped arranged bondage that "no, you shouldn't have been so callous to the servant even under the circumstances, be nice to people in the future"?

Is there a good reason that you can think of why clawing was necessary, or was this just a place where Lewis may not have thought all the way through things?
User avatar
Swanwhite
Site Admin
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:07 pm

Re: The Problem of Aravis

Post by Swanwhite » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:29 am

An excellent question, but I never got the feeling that the punishment was ever for running away. Drugging the servant wasn't really necessary to her escape. It was done partly out of convenience and partly out of spite. I think it comes down to motive even if it was necessary she had no remorse or care for the girl's feeling. I think if she had needed to do it, but felt pity for her, that she wouldn't have needed to know what it felt like.
User avatar
always narnian
Site Admin
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:15 pm
Location: And then, one day, I got in.

Re: The Problem of Aravis

Post by always narnian » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:30 am

I think Aslan was very right in the way he treated her- after all, it would be Aravis' fault the servant had been whipped, and, perhaps it was a lesson to show Aravis how much the servant had suffered, and maybe how she should treat servants from then on?
In the Bible we read: “In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets." Matthew 7:12
I think she was careless, and didn't really think about what could happen to someone else because of her actions. Aslan was making a point- he wanted her to feel what that servant had felt. Her actions may seem easy to justify because all the things that she had gone through... but to put someone else in harm's way to accomplish what she wanted was selfish. If she had been the servant, I'm sure she wouldn't want to have been put in that situation.
Sorry if that is confusing, and let me know what you think :D
Lily of Archenland
ROotL
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:45 am

Re: The Problem of Aravis

Post by Lily of Archenland » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:31 am

Swanwhite - I guess I might be able to accept that it was a motive thing, about her attitude to the action... I mean, on the one hand, I wouldn't want to think to hard about somebody being in pain because of me if I'd left them in the lurch to avoid life-long trouble, either... on the other hand, it wasn't so much like she was avoiding the topic as justifying it, because servant-girl was supposedly a snitch and she never liked her much anyway. <.< It still seems kind of... severe, though. I mean, she's standing in front of a massive awe-inspiring lion who exudes some kind of strong charisma and happens to rule these environs at the same time as the Horses are--after what she'd been through with her travels, would a sharp verbal rebuke from such a being been sufficient to teach her to reexamine her actions?

always-narnian - I'm not arguing whether or not the servant being harmed was at some level Aravis' fault. My issue is whether, given the circumstances (terrified young girl from a culture which did not teach her the value of people from other classes than her own is running away from being pawned off on a rather ignoble older nobleman who will have the legal right to do whatever he wants to her, and drugs someone knowing that there is a likelihood that person will be punished in order to buy time for her escape), after a journey in which she has suffered much and begun to learn her lesson about lower-class people being able to be honorable comrades and human beings (Shasta), it's quite a proportionate punishment for her to be non-fatally torn open and bedridden in extreme pain.
User avatar
HermitoftheNorthernMarch
ROotL
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:43 am
Contact:

Re: The Problem of Aravis

Post by HermitoftheNorthernMarch » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:31 am

I agree with Swan, the punishment wasn't for running away, but for indirectly hurting her servant. Maybe the servant was only being a "tool of the stepmother" out of fear, and maybe she would have wanted to run away too. Also, Aslan said the scratches were equal to the whipping the servant girl received. So I think the point was that Aravis' life was just as valuable as the servant girl's. No more and no less.

I have to wonder if anything happened to Arsheesh because of Bree and Shasta running away.
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you really knew Me, you would know My Father as well." - John 14:6-7a
Lily of Archenland
ROotL
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:45 am

Re: The Problem of Aravis

Post by Lily of Archenland » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:32 am

...Oh.
I'd been thinking in terms of delaying the reaction of a potential enemy/roadblock to escape, but I honestly hadn't considered that the girl might have been willing to run. Although if she'd been at odds with Aravis in the past, might she have taken it as a test or a means of getting her in trouble? Still... asking her to come along (if Aravis could get past the whole "lower class isn't trustworthy" mindset she seemed to have going), is an option which might actually have worked. 0.0
User avatar
always narnian
Site Admin
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:15 pm
Location: And then, one day, I got in.

Re: The Problem of Aravis

Post by always narnian » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:33 am

Hmmmm...I don't know. I suppose it's also how you look at Aravis as a character. I always found her sort of snobbish, not really caring.. I never wondered if Aslan's punishment was unjust- like Hermit said: the scratches were equal to the whipping the servant girl received. I thought Aslan taught her a valuable lesson through it.
Lily of Archenland
ROotL
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:45 am

Re: The Problem of Aravis

Post by Lily of Archenland » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:33 am

She'd been raised in Calormen nobility. She was taught from birth that rank mattered, servants were there for you to use, and her family was related to gods. It would have been exceptional if she hadn't been snobbish.

Even at that, she was able to respect her Animal and see her as an equal or close to, as soon as she found out that she could talk, in spite of local rumors of the Talking Animals of Narnia being demonic; and Lewis said that if Shasta had known her better, he never would have doubted that she'd wait for him/not leave without him when he was late to the meeting place; and she was able to recognize that her supposedly part-divine royal superiors were in the wrong and help bring the news of their betrayal to the Narnians.

I'd say, given the givens, she was a pretty decent person.
Trisha
Knight
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:46 am

Re: The Problem of Aravis

Post by Trisha » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:34 am

Lily: - I pretty much agree with most of what you said, however perhaps because she was snobbish because of her upbringing and circumstances, the influences of her upbringing would have been so strong that it would have taken an equally strong lesson to help shake off those influences. And while Aravis was a pretty decent person in a lot of ways, she did seem to me to be lacking in empathy (Ha! I can talk! I'm pretty good at switching off empathy when it suits me to!) So she would've needed to learn that to complement and enhance all her other good qualities. I can definitely relate to her respecting her Animal; I respect mine and in fact see him as more than my equal!

Hermit:- If anything happened to Arsheesh because of Bree and Shasta running away, I think he deserved it. He was the one who was willing to sell Shasta as a slave to Bree's owner. While he did show some small degree of compassion for an abandoned baby, I feel he basically saw Shasta much the same way as Aravis saw her slave-girl; as someone of little consequence who was there for him to use.
talkingraven
Newbie: Looking into Wardrobes
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:46 am

Re: The Problem of Aravis

Post by talkingraven » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:34 am

I agree with Swanwhite as well, as when she was retelling the story to Cor she just brushed off the girl's fate without a care. Also, I also think it might've had something to do with bringing her down from her... general opinion about being better and such by having the same scars as a slave girl... though she had already started to not be like that anyway.
And who knows, the scars might've had something to do with her future as well (read some interesting fanfics), Aslan works all things out for good.
I also agree with Trisha on the subject of Arsheesh.

The Talking Raven
Post Reply

Return to “The Horse and His Boy”