Writing Question - Stuck in a Ruritania

A place to post stuff you've shared in the Writer's Group meetings

Moderators: Ariel.of.Narnia, Tenethia, White Rose, Lil

Post Reply
kristi
Site Admin
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:29 pm

Writing Question - Stuck in a Ruritania

Post by kristi » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:31 pm

Hi,

So I'm considering writing a novel that may or may not end up needing fantasy elements, but for the sake of argument, let's say it doesn't. It's about a castle guard and some things that happen to him. Now here's the thing: I'd like to set the story in a fictional idealized medieval European-type set of counrtries (Like Ruritania from the Prizoner of Zenda). The focus is on the character's story, and I want to invent my own history for the kingdom and its neighbors (not involving any actual countries). I could, of course, set it in another world, which gives me the liberty to invent whatever history I want, but then I get into an awkward situation with having to worldbuild the religions of the nations, because a lot of this story is about forgiveness and redemption and I see the characters needing to send prayers heavenward at least a few times. Making it a Christian nation would be perfectly effective. So, what do I do? Pull something like they did in the Princess Bride novel and say that the place exists somewhere "before France but after Paris"?

What are your thoughts, fellow readers and authors?
anunknownpevensie
Fanatic: At the broken stone table
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:55 pm
Location: Not where you think I am . . .
Contact:

Re: Writing Question - Stuck in a Ruritania

Post by anunknownpevensie » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:32 pm

Ohh. That last suggestion in your post sounds good. Yeah. The world-build element can be helpful, but if not done right, which would be hard, will create terrible controversy among some readers on whether you are right or not. That is, if you publish it. I like the point of placing it somewhere out there, in between something or other, idea.
Image


And if you want me to respond to anything, you will have to quote me I am afraid.
User avatar
Ariel.of.Narnia
Site Admin
Posts: 11696
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:21 pm
Location: hiding in a wardrobe
Contact:

Re: Writing Question - Stuck in a Ruritania

Post by Ariel.of.Narnia » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:07 am

Like you say, there are pros and cons to both.
I'm thinking that you could pull off the fictional "real world" setting, as in Princess Bride, and use the morphing and evolution of nations to your advantage. Your countries could have some basis in real ones without necessarily ever pinpointing the locations. Perhaps your main character's country joined another (eg: Chezchslovakia), or perhaps the border moved (eg: an ancestry site saying that some of my ancestors came from what-is-/now/ Ukraine), or perhaps they were totally conquered and either totally assimilated (eg: Greek and Roman conquests) or utterly scattered (eg: Israel until 1948). Whether or not any of this plays (or is even mentioned) into the story is up to you.
I'm now curious how easy it hard it'd be to write a story during which no one questions whether it's supposed to be set in the real world or in another. I don't know about you, but Disney films such as Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty (or even Barbie films like Princess and the Pauper and Island Princess) don't really make me wonder, even if they use made-up country names like Seridoza and Appalonia. I have never asked myself that; sort of assumed it's okay to be in either this world or another. *shrugs*
knight and scribe
Image
lyrics from TobyMac's "New World"
kristi
Site Admin
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:29 pm

Re: Writing Question - Stuck in a Ruritania

Post by kristi » Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:02 am

And it usually IS ok to be in either this world or another, but it seems to me there's something not-quite-right about being definitely in ANOTHER and then referencing the effects of the crucifixion as historical. Agree?
User avatar
Ariel.of.Narnia
Site Admin
Posts: 11696
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:21 pm
Location: hiding in a wardrobe
Contact:

Re: Writing Question - Stuck in a Ruritania

Post by Ariel.of.Narnia » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:32 am

Ehhhhhh, I guess? Might depend on how you handle it. If you give a parallel to the crucifixion and resurrection (as in Narnia), that'd cover your bases there so far as another world goes.
I also liked the way Paul McCusker handled it in his Passages series, in which kids from our world end up in another and basically live in certain Old Testament stories. In one book, it's clear that this other world has not had its "New Testament" yet, but a prophet knew that everything was building up to the climax of God's grand plan (ie: salvation through Christ's crucifixion and resurrection/ the equivalent that world would have); the kid of that story says, "I know what it's leading up to!" but the prophet tells him to not detail this event before its time. In the Moses book, a firstborn boy from our world goes up to the Moses character to receive the mark of blood on his forehead (the book transferred it from the doorposts to the children's foreheads) but the Moses character says that he has already been covered (ie: the boy was a Christian in our world and that transferred over to his time in this other world that did not yet have its Christ figure). The problem with that, though, is that in order to say those things, Passages specifically depended on the world-hopping that happened, which, I assume, isn't happening in your story.

I was almost going to say that you could write this pre-crucifixion/resurrection and go with a more Jewish-type of faith (ie: hoping for Messiah rather than already having had him come), but you say the setting is idealized medieval, so that kinda nixes that idea if you wanted to pursue the ambiguous world setting.
However... I remember reading one juvenile biography as a kid about Indians (that is, Native Americans) who had not received the Gospel and yet at least one man in the village did have at least something of an understanding of and relationship with God. That would easily work in this world or another.
The pro of these is that you could get away with not having to specify anything about a crucifixion/resurrection event, whether or not it's happened in the world of your story. The con is that you would lose that very important element (yea, the very pinnacle) of the Christian faith. So if your story needs that, then I've just talked myself into a corner and will proceed to shut up. :P
knight and scribe
Image
lyrics from TobyMac's "New World"
hansgeorg
Fanatic: At the broken stone table
Posts: 548
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:00 pm

Re: Writing Question - Stuck in a Ruritania

Post by hansgeorg » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:08 pm

Idealised world setting, no world hopping ... for a country with no crucifixion yet happened, in our world, it would be either court of King David or of Priam of Troy (specifically if not yet accepting the probably satanic - directly so - cult of Apollo, which might be construed as introduced by Paris).

But otherwise, Ruritanias are usually set "in our world" (though not always in Lloyd Alexander), so decide a region and make a history typical of it, but not identical to any of the real countries in it.

Like Hal Foster did with Thule and Inner Lands, which are most probably not Norway and Sweden, but rather parts of what is really Norway. Or like Hergé did with Syldavia and Borduria (note: of these only the history of Syldavia is detailed, Borduria being a second invader after getting rid of the first invader Turks - and Borduria is also a contemporary threat, both in King Ottokar's Spire and in The Calculus Affair). Then there is Vulgaria in Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang. But that is not very detailed in history and certainly not Medieval, especially not after arrival of a motor car, but also not in previous troubles, like Child Catcher being a clearly non-Medieval and Modern feature.

Perhaps Syldavia's history is not quite typical, got rid of Turks very early for a Balkan country.
anunknownpevensie
Fanatic: At the broken stone table
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:55 pm
Location: Not where you think I am . . .
Contact:

Re: Writing Question - Stuck in a Ruritania

Post by anunknownpevensie » Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:59 pm

Very true Kristi. The Crucifixion cannot well be in a good story from another world, unless you did as Lewis did alike to Aslan. Tolkien also added a bit of the idea in his story of Gandalf dying fighting the balrog, but it isn't nearly as strong or "correct" to the real happenings.
Image


And if you want me to respond to anything, you will have to quote me I am afraid.
hansgeorg
Fanatic: At the broken stone table
Posts: 548
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:00 pm

Re: Writing Question - Stuck in a Ruritania

Post by hansgeorg » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:46 am

In Tolkien you are, like in Conan series (not recommended, but read), dealing with pre-historic Ruritanias.

Gandalf, Frodo, Aragorn, Tom Bombadil even all to some respect "prefigure" Christ, i e would have done so if that age had really been there.
Lily of Archenland
ROotL
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:45 am

Re: Writing Question - Stuck in a Ruritania

Post by Lily of Archenland » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:15 pm

Technically, the crucifixion as such can be applicable in another world, or at least I've seen it done by a couple of less-known authors (as well as the implications of parts of Lewis's Space Trilogy) - that is, if the inhabitants of the other world are in communication with ours or have been in the past, and preferably descended from or closely related to our humans. I've seen this as members of other medieval-ish world have magic travel which routinely takes them to ours and probably had humans who settled there long ago as well (in one case), and humanity took to the stars long ago, brought Christianity with us, and medieval-ish world forgot or mythologized their past space-travel and thinks of themselves as the human world and remnants of spacefaring technology as Dark Forces Not to Be Messed With (in another case). It would be a delicate balance to keep, especially if you wanted a more realistic-feeling book rather than outright fantasy, but it's not technically impossible.
Post Reply

Return to “Writer's Workshop”