A Battle in The Silver Chair?

Discussions on the upcoming film by CS Lewis Company and Mark Gordon Co.

Moderators: Ariel.of.Narnia, jesusgirl4ever, Ajnos

User avatar
Ariel.of.Narnia
Site Admin
Posts: 11696
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:21 pm
Location: hiding in a wardrobe
Contact:

Re: A Battle in The Silver Chair?

Post by Ariel.of.Narnia » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:53 am

@Lil: Yes, good point on Douglas pushing for canon, now that he's going to have more control over the story.
knight and scribe
Image
lyrics from TobyMac's "New World"
hansgeorg
Fanatic: At the broken stone table
Posts: 548
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:00 pm

Re: A Battle in The Silver Chair?

Post by hansgeorg » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:15 am

Lily of Archenland wrote:*Canon? I'm pretty sure it's one N is you're talking about Authorized Versions of things, and two for the weapon...
I am pretty sure the Latin canon means - is it originally Greek, btw? - the kind of string you use to find or keep a direction or straightness. And with one n.

As to cannons, Italian cannone would be an augmentative form of canna (reed, hence tube). Keeps two nn from canna.
User avatar
Ajnos
Site Admin
Posts: 468
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:07 pm
Location: Where the Stars are Strange

Re: A Battle in The Silver Chair?

Post by Ajnos » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:08 pm

Don't worry, Lil, I get those two spellings confused all the time.

Since we started the conversation, I decided to do a bit of research because you don't dangle a question like that in front of a philologist and not get her to do research on it:

So the -nn- word (cannon) referring to the weapon seems to go back via French to a Romance language word meaning "tube" or "barrel". This in turn is possibly related to the word from which we get cane (as in "a stick") which originally meant something like "reed" (so cane = small hollow stick/tube; cannon = big hollow stick/tube). Cane does seem to go all the way back to Latin canna which comes from Greek kanna (which might ultimately derive from a Semitic word).

Here's the etymological entry in the OED:
cannon
Forms: Also 15thC (chanon), 15–17thC canon.
Etymology: In 16th cent. also canon , Scottish cannoun , < French canon (14th cent. in Littré) = Provençal canon, Catalan canó, Spanish cañon , Italian cannone , lit. ‘great tube, barrel’, augmentative of canna, canne = cane n.1, reed, pipe, tube. The spellings canon and cannon occur side by side down nearly to 1800, though the latter is the more frequent after c1660
Notice that until 1800, single and double -n- spellings were used :P

Now the single -n- word (canon) referring to an established text has a complicated origin. It seems to have been originally applied to rules or laws introduced by the Church (and is still used in that sense today - "a canon of the church"). Among these laws was the "canon of scripture" (officially established books of the bible). Later it was also used of other "canonical" lists of works by secular authors like "The canon of Shakespeare" or "The canon of Greek orators". We now use it basically as an adjective to describe an adaptation (like a film) that sticks to the original text of the author or to refer to something that exists in the imaginary world/universe established by the creator of that world/universe (like the "canon of Star War"s which they rudely decided to mess with recently ;))

The actual etymology of canon is apparently from Latin canon and Greek kanon which according to the etymology means "rule". But when I looked those words up (kanon isn't the normal Greek word for "rule") it actually refers to a straight rod or bar which can be used as a unit of measure (like a modern-day ruler). Which means (guess what?)....it turns out this word is related to the kanna word meaning "reed" -

So it looks like both words have a similar origin after all !!

Etymology from OED
canon
Forms: ME canoun, (ME canown), 15–17thC cannon, OE, ME– canon.
Etymology: Found in Old English as canon , < Latin canon rule, < Greek κανών rule. Early Middle English had ˈcanon , probably < Old English, and caˈnun , caˈnoun , < Old French canun , canon , the French descendant of the Latin. Senses 12 – 14 are of obscure origin; some or all may belong to cannon n.1 in French spelt canon

(etymologies taken from OED.com which is the official home of the Oxford English Dictionary online - a website not affiliated with TLC)
Image
Thank you for the set Happy!!

Born a Daughter of Eve; Now a Daughter of the Second Adam
User avatar
hobbit_of_narnia
Knight
Posts: 6529
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 9:13 pm
Location: ♫ What's this holding me? I'm not where I'm supposed to be! ♪♫

Re: A Battle in The Silver Chair?

Post by hobbit_of_narnia » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:51 am

And then just to make things confusing, "canon" can also mean a song that goes in a round. It took me a very long time to get the canons/cannons straight.
Image
If somebody has an idea for a Narnia comic that they weren't planning on making themselves, I <------ This offer still
would be so grateful if they would send it to me in a PM. I am running appallingly low on ideas...! <-- stands. :)
hansgeorg
Fanatic: At the broken stone table
Posts: 548
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:00 pm

Re: A Battle in The Silver Chair?

Post by hansgeorg » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:24 am

A song that goes round has a ... Latin canon and Greek kanon which according to the etymology means "rule".

The written melody being a rule by which one avoids confusing one's own singing with the other voices. I composed canons for guitars.

Some rock bands with more than one guitar have guitarists accompany each other in superposed melodies, so why not have ordinary, non-rock guitarists accompany each other with same melody in canon?

Anyone who would like to try (there is one for two guitars, one for three guitars, one for four guitars, they are not the same) is welcome to pm me. I will be happy to forward it.
User avatar
Tenethia
Site Admin
Posts: 2647
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:43 pm
Location: Sticking my head in an oil jar... for some reason.

Re: A Battle in The Silver Chair?

Post by Tenethia » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:03 pm

Canon/cannon/Whatever. Although I'm sure we all agree spelling is important, we've had a whole page now discussing the etymology of a word that just rooted from someone adding an extra n accidentally. I think we should start a thread about this in the bird and baby section, if we want to continue this :) It is a bit off topic for here.
Image
Lady Tenethia, Moderator and Contributor
This is my favorite scripture passage ^.^
Post Reply

Return to “The Silver Chair”