Summer Challenge Sharing Thread

[Swanwhite]

Chapter 5. The Storm and What Came of It.

Our only chance
Is eastward now
At least our stance is clear
We're heading on
To tread the dawn
Though no one knows quite where
And all is thirst
That worsens heat
and beats us down to bare
We're praying for a breath of wind
And a bit of land somewhere.

Chapter 6. The Adventures of Eustace

https://soundcloud.com/swan-white/dragon-tears-draft

[hansgeorg]

I guess I hadn't thought of associating Lewis' peoples with cultural groups so far back in time. I'm not sure we know enough (or perhaps I don't know enough) about Hittite culture to compare them to the Calormenes and the Trojans are too Greekified in Homer for us to know what they were really like. On the Narnian side, there's no major battle that we know of between the Telmarines and Calormens (unless I'm forgetting something).

In The Last Battle we have Telmarines on Narnian side. At least in Cair Paravel, plus Tirian is Telmarine.

Trojans are a bit better known now, thanks to Schliemann - and I think CSL deliberately made Narnians a bit Trojan.

One layer, Schliemann found pictures of lions - and suns. Recall any Narnian flags?

You know how Chesterton said that Medieval Chivalry identified itself with Trojans?

Well, think of Narnians as a bit like Trojans with traits of Medieval chivalry.

... the Trojans are too Greekified in Homer for us to know what they were really like.

Sure the Greeks were not a bit Trojanised since Achaean days?

Imagine that Achaeans were conducting a large scale, Mycenae based empire, with strong fiscal powers and strong centralism.

Imagine that Achaeans when starting Trojan war deliberately made chiefs under Agamemnon lead troops for each of them mingled from all over Achaean area, a bit like the Foreign Legion is from all over Europe.

And imagine the local patriotism, clearly examplified by Troy, was getting a start when Achaean troops were so demoralised that Agamemnon rearranged commands according to origin, just to boost morale, and that Ship Catalogue in Iliad B was the start of what we think of as Greece, with strong local ties. If so, Iliad B may have been the very core around which Homer started writing his poem (and including Corinth would have been a joke if Corinth in his day was as much of an upstart as New York compared to Europe, and Corinthians may have earned it by bad and stingy manners to a blind poet).

If you have read The Napoleon of Notting Hill by Chesterton, you will know what I mean with Iliad B being a possible start of local patriotism - Agamemnon having a hunch for a "pep talk series" like Algernon for his version of a joke.

[kristi]

This is all far beyond me. I just assumed the Calormenes were meant to be reminiscent of the Pre-Islamic Arabic culture found in 1,001 Nights.

[hobbit_of_narnia]

I love the song, Swanwhite!

[Ajnos]

The Arabian Nights type culture is what I've always thought of as the inspiration for the Calormenes, Kristi. Lewis actually makes reference to Arabian Nights in one of the Narnian books (I forget which one).

Another lovely poem, Swan. (I need to get my headphones to listen to your song, so I'll tell you what I think once I've done that)

Hobbit: Reep and Eustace! Great job! I love those to together and the development of their relationship in the Walden film was the one thing they really got right. (I remember someone on here commenting shortly after the film came out that they should have cut all the other nonsense and just made a film called "The adventures of Reepicheep and Eustace".)

Random comments:
I meant to comment yesterday that I snerked at the line where Eustace is complaining about the storm and says "Needless to say there's no wireless or even a rocket, so no chance of signalling anyone for help." As a student of language change, I love it when words change their meanings and result in little funny coincidences like this. I can imagine Eustace really complaining in our day and age about the lack of wireless internet access onboard the Dawn Treader. "If only there were signal here, we could check out where we were on Google earth and see if there was any land nearby. We wouldn't have to sail blind like this. Why don't you have GPS?"

I also thought it was interesting that Eustace had almost no idea what a dragon was. It seems odd today but I remember reading in The History of the Hobbit that although dragons were known and formed part of medieval folklore, their status as staples of Fantasy (and the characteristics we associate with them today of cleverness and lust for gold and enchantment and goldsickness) were really (re)introduced in the 20th century by Tolkien with the writing of the Hobbit and those who followed him. So I guess in these days it would be possible for an educated boy like Eustace to not know about dragons if he were only reading "factual" books.

Finally, this also belongs to yesterday, but I only made it today. Another island collage from photos I took in Britain (this time of a coastal area in England rather than an actual island)

Dragon island 5.jpg (44.61 KiB) Viewed 20582 times

Day Four: Chapters 7-8
Untold Stories
Lewis is good at not telling us quite everything about his characters and the background to his stories. And he does this especially in the Dawn Treader where we are introduced to so many new people whose stories are never told and places whose histories are never recorded. When I was younger, this kind of thing would annoy me: I would want to know more; more detail, more writings by Lewis etc. But now I appreciate the mystery which adds to the authenticity of the story and also makes it part of a much bigger grander tale of which we are old told only part. The rest is left up to the imagination, and Lewis encouraged readers to use their imagination in that way.

In these two chapters we encounter a number of mysteries. Firstly the Lord Octesian. I know we’ve had detailed discussions about this on the forum before (there was a many-paged thread on the topic before the site crash) because Lewis leaves it intentionally ambiguous. Was Octesian eaten by the dragon or was he the dragon? For his sake and dignity it may be better that we don’t know (neither fate is particularly honourable). But that doesn’t mean we can’t speculate.

Secondly, what happened on Burnt Island? One of the things that struck me about Burnt Island which I hadn’t thought of before is that it was inhabited. Apart from Coriakin’s Isle with the Dufflepuds and Ramandu’s Isle which is just him and his daughter , I generally think of the Eastern world is basically uninhabited. But here we have evidence of a small (very small) community that had been living on a small green island until their dwellings were attacked by fire. More mysterious is that, based on the coracle, they seem to have been small people: perhaps dwarfs, perhaps relations of the Duffers? The closeness of Burnt Isle to Dragon Isle, and the idea that the burning of the dwellings could have been by a dragon makes for some interesting possibilities regarding the fates of both Octesian and the inhabitants of Burnt Isle. Were their stories connected? Had Octesian first left his fellow Lords to stay with the natives of Burnt Isle and made his way to Dragon Isle later? Was he the dragon that destroyed the natives homes (in which case his story would be almost sadder than even that of Lord Rhoop’s)? It’s also possible, on the other hand, that Octesian was never on Dragon Isle; that the dragon had killed him along with the natives and carried off his armband with other treasures from his plundering. (Oops, that would make the memorial on Dragon Isle a little inaccurate, but at least it’s in the right general vicinity.)

The third mystery, of course, is Lord Restimar. (Which is who the Goldwater Lord turns out to be – sorry for the spoiler). Why was he separated from the others? Did the others witness what had happened to him and flee the scene? Why then did they not leave a monument or at least take his armour with them? Had Aslan wiped their memories too? (If they knew about the water, how were they not corrupted by the desire for wealth it could bring?)

These open stories, of course, provide ample opportunity for fan fiction (I’m kinda tempted to do something about the Goldwater one if I find some spare time). But as I said before, there is beauty in the kind of storytelling that does leave things like these a mystery. It seems that apart from Lord Bern, all the Lords suffered much during their adventures, and mostly came to rather bad ends. It is perhaps “none-of-our-business” what actually happened to them (would you like to have your failures and tragedies told? As Aslan says to Aravis “No one is told any story but their own.” But again, as I said before, it is fun and a good exercise of the imagination to speculate.

[hobbit_of_narnia]

I would love to watch a movie called "The Adventures of Reepicheep and Eustace".

Today I tried (again!) to draw the Sea Serpent, so here's the result of that:


I thought I'd mention, too, how much I love the line, "But all the time Drinian was steadily steering to the starboard, like tiresome people in cars who continue at forty miles an hour while you are explaining to them that they are on the wrong road."
And I just noticed this last time I read the chapter (you'd think I'd have noticed it sooner), and I don't know if anyone else has already thought this through and come up with an explanation. But why would have the lords have had Narnian "Lion" and "Tree" coins? I'd have thought the Telmarines would have introduced their own monetary system, with its own coins, when they took over Narnia, especially considering how they hated Aslan and the woods. And the seven lords left the Narnian shores before the reconquering of Narnia... Just a thought.

[hansgeorg]

This is all far beyond me. I just assumed the Calormenes were meant to be reminiscent of the Pre-Islamic Arabic culture found in 1,001 Nights.

Though Arabian Nights is one part of it, minus its monotheism, the Tarkaans and Imperialism hardly come in there.

And as previously said, the Tisroc dynasty starting with Tash is very reminiscent of Uppsala, where Odin started a dynasty - and a cult of himself.

The Arabian Nights type culture is what I've always thought of as the inspiration for the Calormenes, Kristi. Lewis actually makes reference to Arabian Nights in one of the Narnian books (I forget which one).

Arabian Nights is clearly inspiring female culture in Calormen, but not Tash worship per se.

Another lovely poem, Swan. (I need to get my headphones to listen to your song, so I'll tell you what I think once I've done that)

I am sorry I have neglected Swanwhite's poetry in my comments, but they are delightful.

It seems odd today but I remember reading in The History of the Hobbit that although dragons were known and formed part of medieval folklore, their status as staples of Fantasy (and the characteristics we associate with them today of cleverness and lust for gold and enchantment and goldsickness) were really (re)introduced in the 20th century by Tolkien with the writing of the Hobbit and those who followed him. So I guess in these days it would be possible for an educated boy like Eustace to not know about dragons if he were only reading "factual" books.

Dragons were sufficiently familiar to readers of E Nesbit - in one story a dragon gone good becomes the first cat.

There are dragons in Fritz Leiber, and I presume in Robert E. Howard too. There are dragons when 19th C romantics retold Arthurian or Volsung legends. And so on.

And even now, someone really avoiding fantasy could not know what a dragon was - except for all the omnipresent imagery which make it impossible to ignore it.

Lewis is good at not telling us quite everything about his characters and the background to his stories. And he does this especially in the Dawn Treader where we are introduced to so many new people whose stories are never told and places whose histories are never recorded. When I was younger, this kind of thing would annoy me: I would want to know more; more detail, more writings by Lewis etc. But now I appreciate the mystery which adds to the authenticity of the story and also makes it part of a much bigger grander tale of which we are old told only part. The rest is left up to the imagination, and Lewis encouraged readers to use their imagination in that way. ... These open stories, of course, provide ample opportunity for fan fiction (I’m kinda tempted to do something about the Goldwater one if I find some spare time).

I suppose the kind of person who would be annoyed is the kind of person who would write fan fiction.

EDIT : the images of Dragon Island are lovely!

EDIT : answering Hobbit. Lovely picture of an unlovely critter.

I thought I'd mention, too, how much I love the line, "But all the time Drinian was steadily steering to the starboard, like tiresome people in cars who continue at forty miles an hour while you are explaining to them that they are on the wrong road."

40 miles = 60 km. Fastest cars could go back then, or a security regulation?

And I just noticed this last time I read the chapter (you'd think I'd have noticed it sooner), and I don't know if anyone else has already thought this through and come up with an explanation. But why would have the lords have had Narnian "Lion" and "Tree" coins? I'd have thought the Telmarines would have introduced their own monetary system, with its own coins, when they took over Narnia, especially considering how they hated Aslan and the woods. And the seven lords left the Narnian shores before the reconquering of Narnia... Just a thought.

Telmarines might have used the monetary system already in place, especially if useful in trade with Archenland (what happened to Archenland during the Telmarine times between Caspian I and Caspian IX/Miraz, btw?) and therefore, indirectly via Archenland, with Lone Islands.

EDIT, back to Hedgepickle:

It is perhaps “none-of-our-business” what actually happened to them (would you like to have your failures and tragedies told? As Aslan says to Aravis “No one is told any story but their own.” But again, as I said before, it is fun and a good exercise of the imagination to speculate.

Aslans' words to Aravis might have some mystical meaning as no one really fully undestands another person (novelists and fan fiction writers do exercises in trying but do not succeed), or it may have been, I sometimes fear, a piece of bad Protestant theology in the Anglican author.

Protestants do not believe in canonising saints - we Catholics believe we actually ARE told what happened to quite a lot of someone else people, by the miracles God makes on their behalf to show they are in Heaven and praying for us.

And any symbolism of woods or of Aslan might have been simply ignored. In the coins, that is.

NOT liking to have all one's failures told is one reason for liking fiction - where paper people who can't be hurt by the readers (only by other paper people) expose their failings. However, it is a decent trait to extend that empathy to paper people as well.

[Swanwhite]

I was sick yesterday so I've fallen behind a bit, but I've been enjoying your reflections still, and hope to catch up this weekend

I love the Napoleon of Notting Hill! Perhaps my favourite of Chesterton's works.

Chapter 7. How the Adventure Ended

I find it interesting how Edmund assumes that Octesian made it no further than this Island because his arm-ring is there. There are many places where Edmund could conclude that I had met my death if judging by where I left my possessions behind me

Easy peeling
Scratching scales
and a sinking feeling
when it only fails

It never can get to the heart
of the matter
And I'm back at the start
Ever after

But on my back
At last
when you come
With painful gain
It is finished and done.

[hobbit_of_narnia]

Telmarines might have used the monetary system already in place, especially if useful in trade with Archenland (what happened to Archenland during the Telmarine times between Caspian I and Caspian IX/Miraz, btw?) and therefore, indirectly via Archenland, with Lone Islands.

Good point. I hadn't thought about trade with Archenland. And I'm not sure what was going on in Archenland during the Telmarine rule of Narnia.


Lovely poem, Swanwhite!

I had a hard time choosing a picture to draw today because a fair number of the characters in today's chapters were...um...invisible. And yet I really wanted to draw a Dufflepud, so I decided to do Clipsie reading the invisibility spell.

[Ajnos]

Swan, I hope to see an anthology of your Narnia poems soon

Day 5
Chapters 9-10

I don't have any seaside pictures that look like how the Duffer's island is described, but here's a photo of an old English country house and garden that might be a bit how Coriakin's house looked

Coriakin's house 2.jpg (28.15 KiB) Viewed 20546 times

Surprises

When I first read The Voyage of the Dawn Treader (when I was about 15) it quickly became my favourite Narnia book. I think a lot of that was the last few chapters describing the end of the world and the way Lewis captured the beauty of that scene, but the story as a whole and the excitement and adventure and Eustace's development really appealed to me too. But I noticed the last time I read the book (and again now) that some of that appeal has waned and I'm not so sure it's my favourite book anymore. Some of that might have something to do with the movie somehow spoiling the book for me, but I don't think that's really it (I can share my thoughts on the movie elsewhere and have already done so in places on the forum). What occurred to me this week, is that much of the appeal of VDT is in the mystery of the adventure and not knowing what will be found or happen next.

I especially noticed it in these chapters about the Island of Invisible voices. The first times I read the book (and mostly the second 'cause I couldn't remember it well), I had no more idea than the heroes who the mysterious inhabitants were and what they might be capable of, what the thumping noise was, and why the plates jumped up and down in the air. I also had no idea that Coriakin wasn't a scary evil wizard and so the passage about Lucy going up to the house was really tense. But this time around, I felt a lot of "you have nothing to be afraid of" and it spoiled things a little. Another place in the book where I noticed that being able to see ahead spoiled things was where they didn't know if they'd find land before they ran out of rations. And then there was knowing that Eustace had been turned into a dragon and not knowing how he'd ever become undragonned. And the sea-serpent scene (which I've never liked that much anyway) seemed kinda trivial. One scene that I think was able to retain it's intrigue, though, was Goldwater Island 'cause there actually knowing ahead of time that the water would turn stuff to gold adds to the suspense as you want to shout "No! Don't touch the water!"

I'm not complaining; this is one of the things that happens when you re-re-re-read books and it's part of life and it doesn't mean I can't read and enjoy discussing and making comments about the book, but I thought it was something worth observing. I guess this kind of thing is worse for certain types of stories compared to others (those that are strictly suspense driven), and unfortunately The Dawn Treader happens to be one of them.

So those are my two cents for the day - not overly insightful, but there it is.

Other comments:
There were a couple other unrelated observations I thought I'd make: Firstly, I thought it was kinda ironic that Lucy finds a spell to make one beautiful when the Duffers had failed to find an "un-uglification spell". Of course Lucy's beautification spell wasn't really what they needed (they just wanted to reverse their monopod-isation) but I thought that was funny.

Secondly I love the quote: "There's some magic at work here," said Caspian. "Machinery!" said Eustace. That reminds me again of the passage I referred to on the first day from the preface to The Silmarillion where Tolkien describes magic as not unlike machinery.

I have to quote the description of water, "Powerful wet stuff, aint it?" 'cause it's just so hilarious

Aslan saying "Do you think I wouldn't obey my own rules?": love that line so much!!!

The story about the cup and the sword and the tree and the green hill!!!

There was something else I wanted to say but I've forgotten and it's late.