TLC Forum

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You say you're writing a fic about this... I'm a bit curious who is the main character. Are you mostly focusing on Jadis, or her sister, or a bystander in one of their armies?

I've had a Charn-fic percolating in my head, also--but not focused on the Last War. And I'm not sure how soon it would be a good idea for me to be acting on it.

Well, not writing, per se, but it's on my list of well-over-100 fic ideas. I've not decided which pov to go with (either the sister's or alternating between them). It would require a load of thought and frequenting this thread. Also, I've got some in-progress fics that should probably be taken care of before I start another.

Ah, alrighty.
I'm not sure if my fic ideas are up to 100--I shall need to count sometime--but I do think I know the feeling.
I am glad that the thread can be of some use in your brainstorming.

Fascinating discussion
The main reason I would imagine the sister to be in the right (or more in the right) is that Jadis is going to such lengths to try to justify her actions. Saying that the sister would not yield the throne does not sound as if it was Jadis's by right. Jadis would have said clearly that the throne was hers by law if it had been. The sister may have broken the magic truce, but there is also a decent possibility that she cared some for the people.

I don't like either one of them.

We do not know very much about Jadis' sister, but through Jadis we might be able to learn a little as others have already done. Jadis, as many others before her, was a cruel and wicked person capable of nothing good nor wholesome. Thus her sister may have well been the same, (you may remember the Hall of Images), unless of course she turned from the path of her ancestors. Now Lewis only tells the story of the fall of Charn through the perspective of Jadis, who would most definitely change her words to suit her needs or justify her actions. So would she be considered a “reliable source”, highly unlikely.

So did her sister really use magic first? It could have been that she did but it might be that she didn't. Jadis would never want her sister to have the throne, even if her sister was entitled to it. So she might have used magic first to destroy everything JUST to keep her off the throne, which sounds like something Jadis would do.

Is her sister in the right then? Well it depends. (I'll probably be diving into the deep end here, but if you want to join me read on!) As I stated before it might be possible that Jadis' sister had changed her ways. If she did she would be in the right. But it would be difficult to find any evidence to prove that. Was she ruling at the time of the war? Or was Charn without a ruler? If the latter all of the cruelties being done mayn't be the fault of the sister. But if the former than it would be unlikely that she would have changed her ways. She would have been “less” evil, but evil is still evil no matter what level it is at.

I would imagine that Jadis would try to demonize her sister by saying things about her to make herself seem like the one in the right. She was obviously alright with her father ruling (he was cruel too), unless she killed him... She wanted power and she would have nothing stand in her way so why not try to take the throne while her father was still alive? Why not battle him for it? Maybe because he was cruel like her?

This might answer some questions. She did NOT want her sister to take the throne. Was her sister good? Maybe. Remember how she hated Narnia and the singing and how she would have wanted to destroy that world, or all worlds, just to stop it?

Hey! I think I'm getting somewhere with this!

*Ahem*
Well, perhaps that was why she made the decision to destroy Charn. She would never have wanted to let her sister rule if her sister was good.

But this all is VERY far fetched (I dove in the deep end, remember?)
...
Well there are my thoughts. In a longer post than I thought.
Please forgive me if this makes no sense whatsoever, it was late.

Well... It's possible that Jadis' war was about destroying an opposing ideology. But I'd give equal credit to the possibility that a woman who would go out of her way to uncover a kill-all weapon, is the sort of woman who is interested in taking or maintaining power whether or not she particularly hates the competition.

Quote from Lily of Archenland on August 1, 2013, 06:34.....I'd give equal credit to the possibility that a woman who would go out of her way to uncover a kill-all weapon, is the sort of woman who is interested in taking or maintaining power whether or not she particularly hates the competition.

Definitely, but I get the feeling that she does harbour a deep hatred for her sister, just from the way she talks about her in the scene after Digory unwittingly awakens her by striking the bell. When I read her account of the happenings that led to the destruction of Charn, I can practically hear her deep, strong voice with its booming quality, and in the parts where she talks about her sister, it deepens even further until it sounds like an ominous growl of pure hate that would be enough to send a chill up your spine, with her dark eyes blazing in her face like burning coals.

One of the key reasons for my conclusion is one that every member who has a brother or sister could easily understand. Even in the most friendly sibling relationships there is always an element of rivalry, in fact the closer the emotional bond between two people (whether they're related by blood or not) the more intense it gets when they quarrel and fight! But now I'm starting to digress from the original subject here. I definitely DON'T think that Jadis had a friendly relationship with her sister. As Elanorelle says:-

Quote from Elanorellë on July 18, 2013, 21:19Jadis.....was a cruel and wicked person capable of nothing good nor wholesome.

Therefore, it stands to reason that she would be completely incapable of any feelings of friendship or love, except for the love of power. I think most of us would agree on that. She was willing to do anything to have absolute, total power. So she would have felt the sense of rivalry with her sister but without any feelings of family love or loyalty. Actually, she reminds me of a line from the song sung by the spoilt little girl in the old Charlie & The Chocolate Factory movie (not the one starring Johnny Depp) about wanting the whole world in her pocket. When she belts out the line "AND I DON'T WANT TO SHARE!" you can practically hear the capital letters. Can't you just imagine Jadis saying that??

Therefore, I'm willing to bet a whole plate of home-made melting moments that the only reason she didn't challenge her father's rule was that he was more powerful than her and he would have put her in her place, if not totally destroyed her. I'm sure that, if his powers had weakened in any way, she would have instantly moved in for the kill. Perhaps she did, or maybe her sister....or perhaps she and her sister plotted to do it?

OK, it's always possible that the sister changed her ways (though personally). I think that might have made her more vulnerable to Jadis's powers, especially if she was growing in evil. It's easy to see just from studying other characters in the Narnia books who may not have been necessarily evil, but just sinners who've taken the wrong path, that it's very hard to change your ways, even with Aslan's help (you have to put effort in as well!), so it would be monumentally harder for one who is truly evil. Multiply the degree of difficulty by 10 (or more) if you don't have any source of help. I think her family would have reviled her because of it, since anyone who is evil think of goodness as weakness. Even being "less evil" would incite contempt. That's why I think it's unlikely. I think the odds would have been stacked against any seed of goodness being allowed to sprout, let alone flourish, in an environment where cruelty, ruthlessness and love of power is practically a family trait. Any spark of goodness would have been crushed from a very early age. There's a good reason why people who've grown up in the kind of environment where it's necessary to be tough to survive find it very difficult to get themselves out of that mindset.

Ariel, about the whole idea of "What gods would Charn have", I thought personally that the king or queen was the god of the place certainly seemed like it with the way Jadis acted. I don't think she'd have liked being answerable to any god, anyway.

Hm, point, Tenny. Hadn't thought of it like that. Though, theoretically, the populace of Charn might have still worshipped other gods. Like another religion sort of thing. Or maybe she was kinda like the pharaohs, who were worshipped as gods among the pantheon of other gods.