Hobbit Discussion *SPOILERS* Thread

[elanorelle]

@Jaygee: Interesting list. The acorn scene is definitely up there with my favourite scenes - such a nice character moment for both dwarf and hobbit. I was much surprised by how many things I /liked/ compared to those I didn't like. Tauriel mourning Kili didn't exactly /bother/ me but then my eyes were still teary after Bilbo and Thorin's scene. I'd say it was the "love" element and the kiss that made me cringe along with the fact that Kili, again, got more attention than his brother.

@Cor: I know!! :'( From the moment the brothers went scouting at Ravenhill my sister and I just looked at each other knowing what was to come. How brave he was to go into the danger, though! And telling his kin to run, fearing not for himself... As terribly cruel as his death was he died courageously. Now, I probably would have preferred the two dying protecting their uncle but then their deaths might not have gotten as much attention as they did. Who knows?

[Ariel.of.Narnia]

So. I saw it Saturday night. And it was much, much less awful than I expected! *happy dance*

Things I liked (in no particular order and probably with a number of omissions):
- Martin Baggins!!!!!!! *major squeeage* I'm never gonna get over how perfect Martin Freeman is for this role. And... his trying to get Thorin to look at the eagles. *is attacked by the feels* (Oh, and his inviting the Dwarves back to Bag End. Right around the "Tea is at four o'clock. There'll be lots of it. And don't bother knocking" mark is where I shed a tear from each eye.)
- Arkenstone politics
- Thranduil pointing out the prison key theft and Bilbo's response
- Bard
- Bain (the moment he looked up to see his dad up on the bell tower, I said to myself, "It's official. I love this kid." Basically because I knew that whatever he did from then on would gain him points in my book.)
- extra daddy points for Bard for the (really weird, but still point-winning) cart-crash into troll
- Thorin Armitage (kudos for the contrast between dragon-sick!Thorin and noble!Thorin)
- Elrond's and Thranduil's armour and moves (no, I don't joke when I say I fangirl over their armour) (also, Thranduil's steed... made me think of Jewel (MLIN, lol))
- Kili going berserk when Fili dies
- Thranduil comforting Tauriel (not so much for her sake, but because it's character development for him)
- Legolas' face when he notices Bolg and Tauriel going at it (you know, that face that says, "You. You're gonna /pay/ for giving me a bloody nose, buster. (And did you just toss my girl like that?! Okay, yeah, you're in for it.)")
- Bard vs Alfrid... every time
- Balin
- Bilbo getting knocked out (I think the majority of the theater gasped with me at the suddenness of the blow and at how much it looked like it hurt)
- the auction! (and Lobelia! and the spoons! and the contract! "... nevermind what for")
- Tauriel didn't die :P (*is sadistic*)
- Dwalin trying to get through to Thorin
- Bilbo's acorn
- Legolas running out of arrows

things I didn't like (in no particular order and with some omissions more likely than not):
- Kili/Tauriel (though, honestly, once he was dead, it was significantly better... but even before that, it wasn't anywhere near as cheesy as DoS, woohoo!!)
- how ridiculously long (and with ridiculous amounts of effort) it took to kill Bolg
- how the Laketown bell didn't deafen (or even disorient) Bard
- that Thorin was stupid enough to not run Azog through even if only "for good measure / just in case" (or at the very least, run away....
- Legolas' "Prince of Persia"-like stunt of running up the falling stones
- the fact that one shot of Thranduil was flipped (the orc blood on one cheek magically transferred to the other for that shot)
- Galadriel carrying Gandalf
- Galadriel healing Gandalf (I'm pretty sure she can't do that)
- dark!Galadriel
- Galadriel practically fainting... twice (I sort of understand why, but kinda don't)
- that I question how Elrond is able to fight the Wraiths (maybe because he has one of the Three?)
- that Tauriel mourning Kili cut into Bilbo mourning Thorin. They could have kept the camera on a sobbing Bilbo for another ten seconds and I probably wouldn't have had a problem with it. I don't care enough about Tauriel to sacrifice the Bilbo feels!

... that's all I can remember for now. :)

[narniagirl11]

I was able to see the movie back on Saturday, but haven't found time to write up what my reaction was. Over all, I feel like I really enjoyed it. I didn't have high expectations, but I was impressed. I pretty much agree with the majority of what Jaygee and Ariel say above.

[always narnian]

Yes...I saw it. I haven't had time to write anything up yet.

This is my summing up for the movie: Since when did Peter Jackson abandon reason for madness!?! (Sorry, Lord of the Rings quote)

[elanorelle]

So I watched it again tonight. :) I didn't shed a tear this viewing but I did feel a tad emotional at Thorin's death and Bilbo's farewell.

This time around the movie went by so fast! Well, it went by quickly the first time too but when watching it it seemed to cut, cut, cut; II could pick out a few areas where the ee scenes could go (why couldn't the funeral be put in?! *grumbles*). Again, I can't say enough about MF as Bilbo - he is terribly good at what he does here and every moment with him is fantastic. Same goes for RA.

Smaug's attack was nearly as I would picture it. (The first time I watched it in 3D and Smaug looked almost real soaring above Laketown.) While being a 'semi'-purist I, personally, liked the expansion of Bard's character. What do we get in the book? A random person shooting down Smaug then asking for a part of the treasure. In this way we actually get to know the character and care about what happens to him.
@Ariel: It seems as if Bard cuts the rope to the bell early on so it stops ringing. Though, of course, beforehand it should have disoriented/deafened him.

Dol Guldur hasn't exactly been my favourite part of the trilogy but it was interesting to watch. I do have to say I've never liked dark Galadriel in FotR, so this didn't help any. :P Also, I didn't like the fact that she had as much power as she did. Come on, really? Though, I did see something to note - she uses Earendil (the light she gave to Frodo) to force Sauron out.

Dragon sickness! Brilliantly portrayed throughout the entire sequence. Thorin becoming obsessed with his hoard of gold was one of the parts I enjoyed most, him becoming a dragon of sorts (yes, MLIN). Anyway, one of my favourite scenes - one I kept gong on about after watching it the first time - was the effect of Smaug under the golden floor. If for nothing else, the golden statue that I so loathe provides something visually stunning, especially in 3D.

Arkenstone politics was done exactly as I hoped. I especially loved when Bilbo explained why he was doing it.

In short I still liked /most/ every minute of the beginning to middle-ish area (right up until the battle/Ravenhill), where things got weird.

Looking over Ariel's list I must agree with nearly everything she has to say about the things she didn't like. What irked me the most was cutting from Bilbo and Thorin to Thranduil/Legolas then Tauriel mourning. I remember it bothering me so much during the first viewing and it didn't lessen at all with the second (it was worse). The scenes here should have focused more on Bilbo/Thorin not the elves and dwarf. If it /had/ to be done it should be placed somewhere before the more important scene. It totally took me out of the emotion I was feeling prior. *End rant*

Let's see... oh! The death scenes. I already gave my view on Fili's death above (in short I thought he died bravely and it may be considered 'defending his uncle' because he wanted them to save themselves even while knowing he would die). I wished Fili was given more time to develop because his death wasn't as moving as it could have been...
Kili's death was too dragged out/slo mo for me but it wasn't nearly as bad as I first imagined.
Thorin's was... ugh. :'( Following Azog on the ice was a dumb move but I find it somewhat believable - Thorin wanted to be sure he was dead and I don't see how he could have tried to stab him through the ice without risking his own life and possibly dying before killing Azog because he made that move. Anyway, to me, it's especially sad that he probably believed Kili was still alive and did what he did for him... His final words to Bilbo are very touching even if they are not the exact words from the book. If I had to choose a scene to be my absolute favourite from TH it would be between Thorin and Bilbo's reconciliation with Bilbo's mourning and his farewell to the dwarves. Lovely scenes, those.

Also, the end from the journey home to the credits was fitting. It could have been done differently than reusing material from FotR but it was great nonetheless.

Side notes: 1. I watched FotR shortly after seeing BoFA and there is /so/ much more weight to, well, everything, namely the things at the beginning.
2. While some may have their problems with this trilogy and find it 'terrible' or 'too far from the source material' (I'm guilty of the latter sometimes) I've found that it has opened new doors. My mother, (who has never liked LotR and couldn't watch it all the way through or even parts of it), has fell in love with the ME of TH. Unfortunately she chose the Heirs of Durin as her favourites... but anyway... She watched FotR ALL THE WAY THROUGH and is able to understand everything going on because of this series. So, to me, even with its bumps here and there, this journey has been well worth it.

[Ajnos]

Dol Guldur hasn't exactly been my favourite part of the trilogy but it was interesting to watch. I do have to say I've never liked dark Galadriel in FotR, so this didn't help any. Also, I didn't like the fact that she had as much power as she did. Come on, really? Though, I did see something to note - she uses Earendil (the light she gave to Frodo) to force Sauron out.

I *really* need to see the Dol Guldur scene again. (ask Ariel - I was really bad at explaining to her what happened). But here's what happened when I was watching: When she first arrived to rescue Gandalf, Teneb whispered to me, "Is she wearing her ring?" to which I was indignant because how could she be so stupid as to wear her ring publicly in front of Sauron. So when she went all Dark-Queen - I assumed she was using Nenya to combat Sauron (and he, of course, not having his ring, couldn't withstand her). My reasons for thinking this was that I already had in my head that she was wearing it, and the last time we saw her go all Dark-Queen was in the presence of the One Ring. Of course the whole time I was thinking this was very un-cannon because she shouldn't be showing off to Sauron that she had it (also I was wondering why, since they were going that way, Elrond didn't help).

Then talking about it to Teneb afterwards he said he thought she was using the vial of light, and not Nenya, which which I decided was probably correct, and you've confirmed that Elanor. That kinda makes better sense than using the ring but kinda doesn't. As in I liked the idea that the ring (albeit it a good elven one and not the bad One) explained her dark behaviour and ability to conquer Sauron. I'm less convinced the vial could do that (although it does have water in it which reflects the light of the Star of Earendil, which is one of the Silmarils and Silmaril-reflected light might be powerful enough to do the trick, but I'm not entirely convinced of that).

Did Frodo go all dark-and-evil-looking when he used the vial? If the vial was that powerful could he have used it directly on Sauron had he confronted him? (probably, maybe that's why Galadriel gave it to him....then again, Frodo had the one ring so other things would have happened had there been an actual confrontation between the two.) I'll need to think about this all a bit more. (And watch it again, of course )

[Ariel.of.Narnia]

@Elanor: yes, Bard did cut the bell rope after it gonged a couple times in his ear. :) And I agree: I liked that we got all sorts of time with him (and his kids). I mean, he was cool before, but now he's seriously cool.
Point about Thorin following Azog on the ice. Hadn't thought about Azog still killing him even if Thorin had run him through.
Ooh, yes, I'd forgotten about Smaug under the gold floor! Both poignant /and/ cool-looking. Speaking of that scene, I appreciated that we got a glimpse of Thorin's inner struggle there, though I'm a little torn between the overall look of his falling into the gold and the meaning behind it (ie: the graphics looked a little odd vs I loved the visual of the dragon-sickness).

@Ajjie: hmm, now you've got me wondering about Galadriel's powers (not that I wasn't before, but anyway). I knew she used the vial thanks to having seen a lego set of Dol Guldur, but neither vial nor ring make sense to me so far as her going all dark and witchy. I don't know if this'll help or not, but last Sunday, I was in a bookstore and picked up a BoFA art book. In it, they mentioned that the dark!Galadriel takes on some of the Dol Guldur motifs as it's poisoning her (so maybe when she taps into her powers, she's all glowy and over-contrasted, but she's only witchy when in the presence of / poisoned by Sauron's evil? dunno if that made any sense whatsoever...). Which again raises the question in my mind of why she was so heavily effected by the place when no one else was (Saruman not going all weak I can get, but at the very least, mightn't Elrond feel "poisoned" too?).
And since we're on them... anyone else notice that the Three were united at Dol Guldur? If Sauron was able to figure out where the Seven Dwarvish ones were (I watched the Thrain scenes... very interesting and kind of weird they were), why wasn't he all like, "Newsflash! I know who has the Three Elven Rings!"?

[ShiofNarnia]

There's a lot to say but I'll just comment on the current Galadriel discussion. I too noticed she was using the phial. I did not like that scene (nor do I like the one in the Fellowship) and how I feel about it is when they make her dark and evil like that, she doesn't appear any differnt than Sauron. She should be confronting him with light, not darkness.
Sorry for the rant :)

[Ariel.of.Narnia]

it would make sense, wouldn't it? Dol Guldur poisoning or not.

[SYorickson]

I finally got around to watching the final Hobbit movie . I enjoyed the development of Thorin's character, how he went from falling into an obsession with wealth (dragon sickness) and then overcoming it. The scene where he saw himself being devoured by gold, and then throwing off his crown and rejoining his friends illustrated both how deadly greed is and the triumph of overcoming it.