Where did the evil creatures come from?

Good question. Perhaps, as you suggest, Jadis had corrupted them. Or perhaps Aslan did create them and they fell of their own accord (something similar to Talking Beasts going dumb if they prove themselves most unworthy) (I've wondered this a few times since, in LWW (book), there's a "man with the head of a bull" aka minotaur in Aslan's army, though the movies show them initially as bad, then at least some having changed (resulting in Asterius and Tavros.). I might suggest that perhaps Jadis had spawned them somehow (like Melkor bringing about the spiders and Balrogs in The Silmarillion), but she tends to have more destructive than creative qualities.

Good question. Perhaps, as you suggest, Jadis had corrupted them. Or perhaps Aslan did create them and they fell of their own accord (something similar to Talking Beasts going dumb if they prove themselves most unworthy) (I've wondered this a few times since, in LWW (book), there's a "man with the head of a bull" aka minotaur in Aslan's army, though the movies show them initially as bad, then at least some having changed (resulting in Asterius and Tavros.). I might suggest that perhaps Jadis had spawned them somehow (like Melkor bringing about the spiders and Balrogs in The Silmarillion), but she tends to have more destructive than creative qualities.

Well, as we know, Lewis was sometimes a bit rushed and sketchy about details in the books, and in some cases he just shifted gears from book to book after rethinking things later on. For example, Jadis's nature in MN, written later, varies in some details from LWW. She can't be a descendant of Lilith if she's from another world. Other details Lewis didn't even bother to explain. He probably felt that kids would work it out in their minds somehow.

But if one is reasoning a response to this question from inside the Narnian context, rather than taking it as a work created by an author, one certainly could infer that Jadis either created twisted species or corrupted some individuals from species created by Aslan. Another possibility is that Jadis called the evil species from other worlds or other dimensions somehow. Remember that Lewis said that at one time, Narnia had several entrances from other worlds, and that's how the pirates who became the Telmarines got in.

Certainly, some of the species (such as the black dwarves, wolves, ghouls, hags, etc) seemed downright evil, but I think many of Jadis's supporters were no more than weak-willed, frightened Narnians threatened by her. Mr. Tumnus, of course, was in this category.

Others, may have been perturbed by Aslan's long absence and unwillingness to intervene in the winter. As we saw with the dwarves in PC, the so-called "Hiddeness of God" led them to anger and doubt about the power of Aslan. This, combined with their greedy nature, probably led them to become servants to Jadis.

Then, I think some may have been bribed in much the same way Edmund was. For instance, the wolves received power, and I think it likely that the monsters in her army, who had presumably been wandering the Northern moors until the tree of protection fell, were offered a less desolate home. In fact, they may even have come down from the North with Jadis as part of her conquering army.

However, I would be disinclined to believe that Jadis actually created these beings, because as we all know, her greatest power, the Deplorable Word, was no more than the power of pure hatred and destruction. Therefore, it seems more likely, and more consistent with Aslan's apparent divinity and omnipotence, that he did create the monsters of Jadis's army as a part of the world of Narnia but not the country of Narnia.

What we saw in MN was only the creation of the country of Narnia, which was I think a bit of a protected land. (We at least know that the Tree of Protection did not extend it's power all the way North, because the books say that Jadis lived there until she took over Narnia). In MN (which was written last I believe) we did not see the creation of any of the Gnomes from SC, Marshwiggles, Dragons, or Dufflepuds, even though Lewis had already written them into the Chronicles. We saw only an isolated part of the creation story. Very possibly, these creatures could have simultaneously hatched from the earth in other parts of the world.

The problem of why Alsan, an inherently good entity, would create evil creatures can then be answered in much the same was as the problem of evil and suffering is answered in our world. He created the ghouls, werewolves, wraiths, etc. in the same way as any of the talking beasts, dwarves, dryads, naiads, and other intelligent life forms in Narnia--with free will.

I originally would say she created them, but I see such good arguments here.
There is a text based role play game that I play on called Narniamuck. That has some exellent write-ups on the creatures of Narnia, Evils, etc.

It states that some Nymphs ( dryads or Naiads, I think) who choose to become an evil (I'm sorry I forgot the specific name of it) because they chose to become mortal without Aslan's blessing or against His will.

I also believe that corruption played a good deal as well. Possibly (Narniamuck suggests) "Oftentimes the effects of corruption magic mangle or otherwise disfigure the being upon which it acts. In fact, most evil species, including Goblins (orknies), Werewolves, and Hags, are believed to be corrupted humans."

Hmm vey interesting subject this.
After reading everyones thoughts I looked up the creation of Narnia in 'the Magicians Nephew' and noticed that, the first one to start singing is actually the coachman and perhabs this is what starts it all. And then the presence of the evil Jadis is already in this new World before it is created. Aslan is the creator and he starts this new World with his song. But evil is already there. Then she/Jadis throws the broken lamppost at him and when it hits the ground it starts to grow; This is something coming from the outside World, or England, our World already corrupted. The lamppost is in a way ambigous, because it is a symbol of light/enlightenment/the industrialisation- meaning also the fall from innocence and Paradise. Also since Jadis is "the devil" and the devils name can sometimes be Lucifer- meaning the bringer of light. This Means she sows the seed of light, even though she does so unknowingly and not intentionally.

But I have to think about this some more and reread the MN book to elaborate on these thoughts.
But what is your thoughts on that? - the lamppost as the seed of "evil" ?

Oddly enough, I've never thought of the connection between Jadis and Lucifer (the name, at any rate, 'cause I've definitely connected her with him); that's a very interesting thought and I'll have to think about that.
I personally wouldn't consider the lamppost as a "seed of evil", but I see what you're getting at, especially with the bit about it being from a corrupted world and a part of the enlightenment/industrialization.

Okay so now I have just read somewhere online something that makes a lot of sense to me.
I read that the lamp post symbolicly can be viewed the same as the Cross that Christ died on, and some staff in the story of Moses which is turned into a staff from being a snake-

Meaning; God/Aslan shifts the essence of things from bad to good- therefor the Lamppost might have broad the bad with it from our world at first, because it was used by Jadis as a tool to try and hurt/kill the lion. But instead by it touching Aslan, or by his song, it transforms into a symbol of good “the light in the darkness”. Aslan sort of “safes” the lamp post, like God/Christ can save human beings (when you believe 😉 ) This is a lot better then what I came up with at first, because like you Ariel I didn’t like to think of the lamp post as purely the seed of evil.

The cross was for Jesus to die on- something bad, but by his resurrection it is today a symbol of good.
And Moses’s staff was a snake, obviously a bad symbol, transformed into a staff to make wonders come true- good

But still by Jadis the lamp post broad and sowed the bad seed in Narnia. And because of it what came to life that day also had the potential for evil inside- meaning all the creatures coming to life that day had both aspects in them, the good from Aslan and the bad from Jadis.

How is that for a birds and bees story !! Im not too sure I like the light this puts on the Mothers role 😉

I was kinda thinking along the lines of what you found when you first posted, funny enough. 🙂

What I'm wondering, is how many creatures actually are inherently "evil," and how many are more... effectively bent? Like Jadis offering comfort and security to creatures who didn't get along easily with others and saw themselves as outcasts, or meeting physical needs of needier creatures, or selling herself and her claims to the throne more effectively to some groups than to others, and then the groups that got in good with her early on have stories among themselves of "well she wasn't so bad to us, was she really evil" and the other creatures around them are like "most of them sided with the Witch willingly, can we trust them now."

As for whether all the species were created at the same point in time or not, that's a good question. 🙂 We know that there are omissions in the narrative because, for example, Marshwiggles weren't mentioned at creation either.

I've always perceived Black Dwarfs to be more on the effectively bent side - seeing as, if I remember correctly, there's actually nothing in LWW to indicate which kind of dwarf the dwarf that serves Jadis the most is.

Or did the White Witch take what was good, the creatures that Aslan had already created and bend them to her will which in turn made them as hideous on the outside as they were on the inside? This theory is possibly the most reasonable because Satan does work like that, taking what is good and changing it.

But how much power has he to change them physically, biologically?

For hags, human or tree nymphs won over to black magic might do. But Minotaurs would involve some kind of transhumanism. Maybe a Tisroc had some brilliant evil idea from Tash and carried it out, after which he sent the results to the White Witch as a present?

Of course, transfaunism might do as well.

And if there were fauns in the real world, I don't know exactly where they came from, but Rob Skiba would vote demonic inspired transhumanism.

I think there were by the way.

"I am such a bad faun" has a precedent in Patristics. When St Anthony wanted to visit St Paul the First Hermit he passed by a faun who was crying because idolatry was menacing him with damnation, if God should punish him for being idolised by Pagans, and also a Centaur, where he wasn't sure if it was real or not. See St Jerome's Vita Sancti Anthonii. That is, he wasn't sure if it was a creature of God or an image provoked by the devil to scare him - but the Centaur when asked shouted out sth incomprehensible but pointed the right way.

I've always perceived Black Dwarfs to be more on the effectively bent side

Black and red dwarfs are from the time when CSL wrote an allegory.

Near the utter North of the World where Pilgrim's Regress is set, there is a giant barbarian who is served by dwarven supporters - both red and black dwarfs.

Since all of the other characters, or nearly, and all of the adversaires (all), are in that allegory very easily identified either states of mind or ideologies, obviously CSL was referring to Communist and Fascist workers parties.

And yes, I think CSL was a bit swayed in the antifascist prejudice, like about the Spanish War - which his friend Tolkien regretted.

In Trumpkin and Nikabrik you see a bit of atheism in the former and occultism in the latter - which was CSL's view of Communists and Nazis. Not that all other Fascists were into that, but it seems Nazis were.

Hair colour racism has probably occurred on Ireland. Gaels being suspicious of blondes, generally English or earlier Viking, English being suspicious of redheads who was often Gaels.

So, Nikabrik and Trumpkin were not two kinds of creature, they were simply dwarfs engaged in hair colour racism. But one of them an atheist, one of them an occultist on top of that.

We know that there are omissions in the narrative because, for example, Marshwiggles weren't mentioned at creation either.

Never thought about that one.

True.

CSL threw the imaginative fireworks off as they came, so to speak, he was not incessantly revising, like Tolkien did.

I think the Evil One changing creatures' appearances is something Tolkien played with?

And speaking of Minotaurs, I think they're also on the bent side? I seem to recall one being mentioned somewhere else on the good side - I can't recall which of the books it was.

Lewis mentioned something that sounds like a Minotaur in Aslan's army in LWW, when Peter, Suan, Lucy, and the Beavers get there.