Chapter 17. The Hunting of the White Stag

Also I forgot to include this before, but I made marmalade roll this week. I used this recipe: http://www.goodtoknow.co.uk/recipes/538576/mrs-beaver-s-marmalade-roll-on-the-run (click at your own risk. There is a automatically playing video on the side which is kind of annoying.) and it turned out pretty good.

@Ajjie: I figured you meant leopards. I noticed that there were cheetahs alongside the leopards in the movie and thought how there probably weren't a lot of people who would actually notice the difference.
Anyone can draw. 😆 Just some people get more practice than others (or sometimes have a sharper eye for proportions or colors or action or expression, though 70- or 80-something percent of it is in the amount of practice, from what I've seen).
.....nonetheless, challenge accepted. 😛 I did this in maybe fifteen minutes, so I apologize for the sloppiness of it. Aslan especially turned out looking not at all how I was hoping. 🙄 And then the host site for my drawings was being weird, and it ended up taking over an hour before I was finally able to upload it...*sigh* Oh well.

(I love playing up the size difference between Aslan and the other lion. This one I got to do that even more than usual because the other lion is crouching down so that the other creatures can get on his back, and that makes him hardly more than half the height of Aslan.)
(Also so many dwarves..........)

Hobbit, that is extraordinary! And Professor Kirke is incredible too!

@Swanwhite: Awwww, thanks!! 😀
(Also I'd meant to mention, but somehow forgot, that now that you've posted that picture I'm more hungry than ever for marmalade roll. 😆 )

@hobbit: I love it!! Thanks. I love how Aslan is lifting up the bunny. He was given quite a load of creatures, wasn't he? No wonder the Pevensies gave him an award. I can draw some things things, but realistic detail is hard for me, so something like a bunch of animals on a lion's back is beyond my skill. I guess if I had time and inclination I could improve, but the art I have created over the years never motivated me to work on it. That's why I like things like character builder 😀 My skill is with Greek and acdemic writing instead. 😀

Also, I just noticed that your Prof Kirke, with his hair and beard looks slightly lion-like

And now
Day 9: Chapter 17

I had lots of brief thoughts about this chapter, so I’ll adress them one by one. Then I’ll end off with a longer piece about the change in language.

Yay for Ed’s cleverness!

I feel like Aslan is a bit harsh on Lucy. I get that others need her, (and why more people should not have to die for Edmund) but I feel like she should have at least time to see that the cordial she’s never used before works. If I’d been telling the story I would have had her linger a moment longer, maybe even after Ed had begun to recover and she really didn’t need to be with him any more before Aslan chastised her. I feel like the same point would have been made less problematic way.

“Does he know?” I don’t think I realised that this conversation was interupted and never returned to. I can’t decide whether Susan or Lucy is right, but assume Edmund is finally told as his reaction to when he sees the stone knife in VDT implies he recognises it as more than simply her weapon used during the battle.

I also hadn’t realised what a big deal Lewis makes of the sea people. He mentions them on three seapate occasions during the celebrations and corronation

“At first much of their time was spent in seeking out the remnants of the White Witch's army and destroying them, and indeed for a long time there would be news of evil things lurking in the wilder parts of the forest”

The Golden Age didn’t begin right away; like when Israel arrives in the promised land, there is still a lot of work to do before they can enjoy real peace.

I normally only think of Archenland, Calormen and the islands as the only other parts of Narnia’s world populated by men but here it sounds like there are a lot more countries (and other countries Aslan attends to). Which then makes me wonder just how many unknown groups of people from our world made it to Narnia and how many other people (as the Prof puts it) have “had adventures of the same sort” as the Pevensies.

On the hair colours (@Hobbit) I once tried to find all the references to hair colours in the books but I don’t remember if Ed and Peter’s were ever given. I just realised that now that I have access to ebook versions I can do another more thourough search.

For they talked in quite a different style now - On the language question

I have a few different thoughts about this. I’m going to try express them briefly, so I hope it makes sense. As a kid I loved the sudden switch to “old fashioned” court language at the end of the book. But as an adult, especially as a linguist, it had kinda annoyed me. My biggest problem was the question why, if their language were to change over their time in Narnia, that it would turn into what is essentially an older dialect of English from an earlier period.

But then...as I was listening to the passage this morning, a thought struck me. Given all these other countries that are mentioned, what kind of language was used in their courts? The English spoken in Narnia was the sort spoken by Frank and Helen, which explains why the Narnians speak essentially the same variety of English as the Pevensies who are only a generation younger. (Yes, there is still a problem with the fact that there seems to have been no language change in the +100 years since then, but we’ll leave that aside for now). But maybe some of the other countries and islands were settled by immigrants from an earlier period in History and were from a time and place where they spoke the archaic kind of English the way the Pevensies do at the end of the book. Narnia itself is testimony that language changes less slowly in this world, so it could be quite plausible that this archaic dialect was preserved in the other countries. By spending so much time interacting with royalty and nobles of the other places, and having courtiers and servants from some of those courts, it makes perfect sense that the Pevensies would eventually adopt this language, which could be though of as an upper class dialect associated with all the royal houses.

There are a bunch of other problems that this doesn’t adress. Like why the language spoken in HHB isn’t quite the same (I had a brief glance at some of Edmnund and Susan’s discussion in HHB and it does seem to be in an elevated and formal register, but not quite as archaic). I haven’t looked at the Archenlanders language either. I know the Calormenes have their own unique formal register, especially for storytelling, but I imagine them being more isolated from the other countries because they are more culturally different. Another bigger problem for the whole series is why they have largely reverted to 20th C English by Prince Caspian’s time (especially if the Telmarines were descended from pirates) but this is about LWW so I’ll leave that aside for now.

I feel like I should end off with something profound about the end of the book, but maybe I’ll write something tomorrow.

@hobbit: I love the detail you put into that picture with the other lion! His expression, his load (oh my word... no wonder he settled down! 😆 ), his size compared to Aslan, and the fact that Aslan is himself loading him up.
... I want the Professor's chair, man!
Lol, good point about the courtiers and the disappearance of the Four. I hadn't thought of that, but dark as it is, it's totally logical. I've often wondered about the effects of their disappearance myself. Haven't come to any conclusions though (apart from my Tumnus fic). (Okay, I've mentioned Tumnus fics too many times this week, considering that he doesn't make my top-ten list of fave characters....)

Regarding the boys' hair: No, their hair colours are not mentioned. I would have remembered if my mental images were confirmed or denied at any point (despite the illustrations, I've always seen Peter as blonde and Edmund as black-haired; the movies' casting just made me that much happier). (What is it with Lewis taking so long to get to important details like hair colour? I went all of PC thinking Caspian was brown-haired, all of LWW (and, generally, still to this day) thinking Lucy is a brunette, and the whole series thinking Digory also had brown hair. And then, boom, turns out all three of them are blonde?!)

Chapter 17:
Hey, has anyone else questioned how Peter and Edmund were even remotely effective in battle after one or two days of being in the army? On the one hand, I've just accepted it, but on the other, it really bothers me.
Interesting to note that Peter gives Aslan a report on the battle before mentioning that Edmund "was terribly wounded" and "We must go and see him." Aaaaaand for some reason, that's making me think of Mary and Martha sending for Jesus was Lazarus was sick, even though Peter is acting quite differently.
@Ajjie: Perhaps Aslan was not only urging Lucy to go to the aid of the other wounded (both because she has the means of healing them all and because this may also be a lesson in the service of a queen), but also basically telling her to trust? Father Christmas had said the cordial would work, for one. Aslan himself is satisfied with the state of Edmund's health. Perhaps he is telling her that that is all she needs to know for the time being?
Just want to point out that I appreciate the form in which Focus on the Family interrupted Susan and Lucy's discussion of Edmund's knowledge of the Stone Table agreement. (Peter tells them to pipe down 'cause "It's not everyday your brother gets knighted.")
"How Aslan provided food for them all I don't know...." Hmm, perhaps he started with five loaves and two fish? 😉
@hobbit: Don't worry, I've thought of Legolas and the seagulls here too.
I say, I know the merfolk sing for the Four, but I seem to forget that they are full-on subjects, not just underwater neighbours!
@Ajjie: I like the comparison you draw between the Four's early years and Israel's early years.
So we know that there were more humans than Archenlanders, Calormenes, Telmarines, and various Islanders out there, but besides any that may have lived west of Narnia (ie: neighbours of Telmar) or north (ie: among or neighbours of the Giants), I don't think I've put much thought into other nations besides the ones we know. Lewis mentions nations "beyond the sea", but all we know of seaward nations are the ones mentioned in VDT, and those are pretty small at best. I wonder if there are others that we simply don't know about? I assume that the Garden from MN is basically at the west end of the world (though it sounds as though it does extend beyond that point...) and, at least by the time VDT came about, Lone Islanders knew little of what lay east of them, yet we also know of inhabitants on Burnt Island at the very least.... I think I'm just rambling incoherently now.
Gotta wonder how the Four forgot about the lamppost. Apart from the fact that Lucy tells the story of the wardrobe in HHB, surely it's gotta be some kind of landmark, no matter how overgrown the woods have become. Would they really forget it? Would the natives who lived nearby (I'm looking at you, Tumnus)?
I know that the Professor having been to Narnia himself was a later development, but looking at LWW as part of the finished whole, it's curious that he doesn't just launch into swapping stories with the Four. He tells them to not talk about it too much amongst themselves (which seems perhaps a little odd when you consider the dinner party the Friends of Narnia had in LB?) and to keep their eyes open for those who have had the same sort of adventure. I wonder how long it took them to clue into the fact that Digory knew a great deal more than he was letting on? 😀

I feel like I should have said more and talked about more profound things, but it's late and I'm tired. But, *happy sigh*, I'm in love with Narnia all over again. 😀

@Ajjie: No problem!! It was all kinds of fun to do.
😆 Yeah, the Professor's "mane" was partially intentional, partly accidental.

@Ariel: Digory was blonde??????????? 😮 I knew about Lucy and Caspian, but what on earth, I've always pictured Digory with brown hair too!
True (about how good the Pevensie boys get at fighting in a matter of days). I've wondered that too. But then again, Peter was evenly matched against the Witch when all she had was a knife and he had a sword and a shield.
I thought he might have suggested they keep quiet because they all had their young, loose-ish tongues. By the time they're in their twenties they'd know better when to keep quiet about things.

@hobbit: I forgot to comment on the seagulls yesterday. I've lived by near the sea all my life, so I don't really get the mystery of gulls (although my house is far enough that we son't see them at home). It also reminds me that I actually saw seagulls in Oxford once. Considering how far inland it is, that was weird. I also saw them in London which is slightly less weird so I'm guessing they flew up the Thames all the way to Oxford.

@Ariel 1) Their battle-skill doesn't bother me too much. There's always an implication that the air of Narnia does wonderful things to the body. I know you need more than physical fitness to be skilled in battle but it seems like a kind of grace where they are given the skill they need for the task at hand. I also noticed that the Witch was using a stone knife against Peter's excellent sword and wondered how that worked but I guess that does even things out like Hobbit said.

2) I think we could do an interesting analysis of the Pevensies and Mary Martha and Lazarus if we wanted. Or Did Kristi already do that with Character Connections?

3) I seriously want to know more about greater Narnian geography now!

4) It is kinda odd that they can't remember the lamppost. He's obviously emphasising that they had their life in our world had become a distant memory. I also wondered why the light was out because I thought it was a living lamp and burned eternally.

5) When Digory says "You can tell someone's been to Narnia from their eyes" and I was thinking "Go on children! Look at his eyes!" I also wonder how long it took them to realise.

Oh, and you won't believe it; I was looking for something else today, and found my spreadsheet with the hair colours. I'll try get it in a form I can share.